A
male
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I am seriously confused by this. No matter what I do, how hard or little I try, how direct or subtle I am about my intentions, women only seem to want to be “just friends” with me. At this point I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it all. “You’re such a great guy, but…”, “You’d make a great boyfriend (obviously meaning for someone else)”, “I don’t want to risk our friendship”; I could go on and on. I especially don’t understand the last one. Isn’t friendship pretty much the base for any good relationship? Maybe I’m missing something, but I’d guess that most people don’t start by sleeping with a random stranger and hope a relationship develops later. And if you’re worried about risking the friendship, I hate to tell you that things really won’t be the same once a guy tells you how he feels. You’ll never look at him or talk to him the same way and there will always be that awkwardness between you.Seriously, what does it take to attract a woman beyond friendship? It really hurts to know that you’re only good enough to be friends with women and never anything more. Reply to this Question
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Fancy yourself as an agony aunt? Add your answer to this question! A
female
reader, Euphoric29  +, writes (5 December 2013):
Dear OP,
First of all, I feel for you. I'm bisexual and I'm being friendzoned by ladies a lot, so I know what that feels like.
I don't claim I know the solution to your problem, so I'll just give you some random thoughts on the matter.
My theory is that women are just as sex-driven as men and it's a truly stupid waste of time to be too intellectual and romantic with someone who's not initially sexually (!) interested in you. Well, that's also my general theory about love, although I can say I'm not the biggest expert: First, there needs to be sexual desire, at least a tiny little bit. A little bit of curiosity, how would it be..? Then, there needs to be sympathy and understanding on top of that. But the sexual desire is the base. If that's too profane for you, you can also call it beauty, or the coup-the-foudre. I call it sexual desire.
And there follows my second theory: You are getting friendzoned, because you want to build a house (which would be the relationship) without making sure you have a solid base (=mutual sexual interest).
People get friendzoned because they ignore signals of disinterest OR because they don't send enough signals of (sexual!) interest for too long. They either ignore the woman clearly (!) nonverbally signaling "I am not sexually interested" OR they are too shy to bring across their point ("I am sexually interested"), therefore sending the woman a signal "hey, I'm not interested, let's be friends". That's why they get friendship, which is basically another term for love minus sex.
By signaling sexual interest, I mean flirting, making compliments.. not sexually harassing someone.
Successful guys (in my opinion) do at least 2 things: First, they get it if a woman is not interested at all and then they don't even make a move, e.g. asking them out. That's how they save themselves tons of rejection and years of being friend-zoned. For instance, if you see a woman and you look into her eyes and she quickly looks away.. and then doesn't look at you a second or third time again.. probably bad.
Second, they get it if a woman is slightly interested AND they send out signals that are subtle enough to leave the woman guessing but obvious enough she finally gets it ("does he like me? yes? he seems flirting?.."). AND when they got a woman interested, they don't wait for months until asking them out, they do it right away. You need to get someone's interest and then use that interest as long as it's there. If you give a woman too much time to think, she will probably decide that there are many reasons why it's safer and more comfortable not going out with you.
But at last, love is not a science and I'm being very theoretical here. Still hope the thoughts above gave you some inspiration.
A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (5 December 2013):
 I think you have tried everything. I can't seem to pin down any particular thing that should be causing your lack of success. Many of your friends see this the same. That is a very good indicator.
I'm really starting to come to the conclusion that Chigirl is right that you are simply dating the wrong kind of girl. Still with the length of time you have put into this, you should have found the right type once or twice by now.
FA
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (5 December 2013):
 You are coming off way too strong with making steel roses that take three days. That would scare most girls away. Leave such things for when you actually are in a relationship. Instead you need to be charming and atttract her with yourself. Not gifts.
You go for the wrong type of girl, Im telling you. You need to widen your horizon and scan the area for those who already show interest in you.
And stop whining and complaining. That is unattractive.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI also forgot shooting and firearms on my list of interests. What kind of self-respecting cop doesn’t enjoy that…? Can’t say I’ve had much luck bulking up from working out. I must have a pretty high metabolism because even with supplementing I only manage to tone up and not add much weight.
I’m not much for sharing my lack of history either. Only my closest friends know.
I can’t say that I necessarily agree wholeheartedly with male anon’s viewpoint, but it’s not hard to see how a guy would start to view things that way after a while.
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reader, anonymous, writes (5 December 2013): YW.
I think you will find the right person.
You seem like a nice person.
Just don't be a jerk and good luck luck will come to you.
If you hear a non sense advise,
throw it in the trash can.
Who needs a garbage?
Good Luck!
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): Women "want" whatever kinds of guys they are sleeping with today. That is all you really need to pay attention to. Ignore EVERYTHING that comes out of their mouths on the subject. Ignore what they say they want, what they complain about, what they think they should want, etc. Actions speak louder than words. They tell you that you are the perfect guy but they don't want you. That means they don't want a perfect guy. Womens advice for guys like you is to keep being who you are and eventually the right girl will find you. But what they aren't admitting is that this "right girl" isn't being the right girl yet. She is busy being the wrong girl with the wrong guys (and enjoying the hell out of it) right now. This right girl will not see any problem with her prince staying lonely and patient for years until she is ready to find him. She won't see any reason why SHE should have done the same all that time when she didn't want to. So if you have any problem with staying lonely all these years while your princess is bouncing from one worthless guy to another, then you need to stop being such a prince.
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (4 December 2013):
Hi OP,
I broke tradition and directed my comments last time to the other aunts.
First I suggested that you man up. Looking at your list of hobbies I think you are ok in that department. It doesn't get better than wood working welding and camping. I suppose you could add Hunting (potential turn off, be careful) and Kayaking for more thrill factor. In the man up department High Maintenance suggested new clothes, good idea. Hitting the weights and adding 15 - 20 pounds of muscle would also help.
you asked for clarification on being less available, or you just out right rejected the idea. Either way let me explain a bit. You have no obligation to follow my advice, especially if you think it is bad. What you don't want is to be used. That is the key point here. The second point which is almost as important, is to not be seen as being with another woman. Most women are territorial and jealous. Some are competitive and will want to steal you away because you belong to someone else. They are not the rule. Most will see you at a table with your friend, who just happens to be female, and assume that she has some claim or interest in you. This blocks them from thinking about you as boyfriend possibility. So I am not saying reject them all, What I am saying is limit the time you invest in a relationship that is going nowhere. Simple economics. Limit your availability to "Friends" limit your availability to potential romantic partners much less, but do limit it some.
Next, Girls in the class (shape) you are most attracted to have plenty of prospects. You have to stand out in some way to get them interested. Also you have to avoid annoying them. Dropping you does not limit their probability of success. The steel rose should have stood out. My theory is that she simply didn't understand the time involved. Time is highly valued usually.
Last thing (I know it's too much already): High M warned you about bragging. Whining is worse. She was very right stay away from your history.
FA
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for the advice highmaintanance101. What you describe is pretty much the basis for how I try to attract women, though I do try to put my own spin on things. Take the last woman I was interested in for example. Welding is a hobby of mine, so instead of giving her flowers I cut and hand formed all of the pieces to make a metal rose which I welded together. I didn’t use any type of pattern for cutting the sheet steel so no two pieces turned out the same. It took three days to make. She said it was the most romantic thing a guy had ever done for her, but said that she just wanted to be friends.
I can’t say that I have anything that could be considered a bad history relationship-wise other than not having much of a history at all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFemale anon, I get what you’re saying about too high standards. The model type really isn’t my standard though. Average is fine with me. That being said, I’m not a big guy. I weigh in at 140 with 11% body fat. After working out for several months I dropped from a 32 waist to 30 and cut my 1.5 mile run down to just over nine min. Looks wise, I’m attracted to women who are proportional to me. “Me size” as I say to my guy friends. She doesn’t have to be a rail, but I’m not into thick women either. I’d say that’s reasonably realistic.Honeypie, I’m already going to have a tough course load when classes start up again for me. Another class is hardly what I’m looking for. Most women aren’t interested in the hobbies that I am and most of them are unfortunately kind of solo things. I enjoy fixing things, building things, woodworking, welding, things like that. I also like to get outdoors and camp, get out on my motorcycle, and ice fish in the winter.I find that it’s getting tougher to meet women the older I get. Literally all of my friends are now married and when we get together it’s generally not going places to meet people. After all, they’ve already found someone. I’ve even mentioned having trouble with finding a woman to them but they or their wives don’t seem to know any single women anymore.Maybe reading women could be some of it, but from what I’ve seen from women interacting with men that they are interested in, you’d have to be completely blind not to see that she was interested in him. And I’ve never experienced such a thing.Though it has become a rarity, I have me women through friends in the past. Most of the others I have met around school. Meeting women through my career field had never been much of a possibility as there really aren’t many women in it. I’ve even tried the online thing (both paid and free sites) which has pretty much been a waste of time. I can’t even tell you how many messages I’ve sent out over the past few years and have only gotten responses on two occasions. And neither of them messaged back much beyond the first message or two. I don’t hold much hope for online dating anymore.So what do you suggest Fatherly Advice? That I go around telling every woman that wants nothing more than friendship that I have enough friends and it’s my way or the highway? Not exactly what I call a start to a healthy relationship either. I’ve done the “be less available” thing. Which I have found out is when women drop whatever interest they had and find someone who is more available.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): To answer your question,
How to attract women?
Easy.
1. Most women go for a gentleman type.
There are women who loves to go out w/a bad boy but that will never work for me. For me a bad boy belongs to the garbage. sorry.
2. Make her laugh.
Laughter is the best medicine of all time.
3. Give her flowers, chocolates or anything that will show your sincere affection for her.
Its a very old school gesture, but it shows you CARE for her. And also Your A SWEET person. Trust me. Any girl who have receive food or flowers from someone even not so special makes a mark in her head.
4. Show Sincerity and patience with your intention.
Most of my ex bf's showed me those 2 qualities. We started off as friends. I told them, I'm not interested at first but eventually we became more than friends because of sincerity and patience they showed me.
Most men will say I'm serious. I really want to be with you then tomorrow or the next day, you wont hear from them.
When you say your serious, Be good at it. Talk is cheap.
5. Groom yourself.
Make sure you always carry a mouth wash with you.
Wear a smile.
Change how you dress.
In short make your self attractive.
Women are also visual, so maybe you need to change your style. Make sure you always smell good. We always love to hug, so when they hug you, you smell good. That will make you irresistible.
6. Most of all, Be humble. Don't brag.
Don't tell how many women you slept with, its like telling how many women you made miserable. I'm sorry, it wont work.
If you fancy a woman, never tell her your bad history. Sure Honesty is the best policy. but you don't have to tell your number. say its 100.
If you ask me out, again and you told me you've slept with 100 women, Even if your as rich as Bill Gates, As handsome as Antonio Cupo, I will try my very best not go out with you.
It makes me think you don't have respect for women, and sex is just for fun.You don't take life or women seriously. A decent women wants to be taken seriously. 100 count tells me your the type of man I should not even consider.
Unless the girl is madly In Love with you. That's possible, when your madly in love with someone, you can accept everything. But Madly in love, is no longer a fad these days.
Well, try all the things I told you, it might change how women look at you. Good Luck!
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (4 December 2013):
 Maybe go out and take a class, find (or revive)a hobby. GO out and MEET new people, not with the intent to FIND someone, but to become better at socializing.
If you LOOK hard for something it gets harder to find. Car key lost in the house, case in point.. So go out and meet new people.
Also TALK to the female friends you have (one you trust). Ask them for advice. You might be doing something you are not eve aware of which puts you in the "friends-zone" right away. Maybe you are also not reading women very well.
I would NOT start to seek out FWB because that is what a lot of people you age do. It's not who you are and I don't think I would get you what you want.
When you DO met girls - where do you met them? And what kind of girl have you mostly dealt with being "friend-zoned" by?
And may I say, WTG on the triple major :)
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A
male
reader, Fatherly Advice +, writes (4 December 2013):
What we have here aunts is a guy who is genuinely looking for a real relationship. Not a quick roll in the hay. Not a no strings attached physical substitution. Because he is a nice guy, the girls he is meeting are feeling no sexual tension. They want mystery and bad boys and the excitement of the forbidden. So they are doing the worst thing possible they are tying up his time with making him a friend of the opposite sex. Not only does it waste his time by leading him along with no intention of fulfilling his needs, it prevents other girls from considering him.
The only answer in his situation is to be more manly and to stop making his time available to users who want a guy to change their tires and fix their sinks, or even just to chat with until a sexually interesting guy happens along. Heck! just being less available will make him more interesting.
FA
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionYeah, I don’t really understand the whole FWB thing either Honeypie. I guess the guy gets sex without having to put forth any effort for a relationship and the woman gets validated that she’s still desirable and doesn't have to be alone. No one has to feel guilty when they pull the plug after finding something better. I can’t imagine how that could go wrong… A real healthy way to look at relationships…
And no, the whole getting to know someone and then looking for more really doesn't seem to be working. But I can’t say the other route has turned out any better either. So the question remains. What does it take to attract a woman to where she does want to date you? I’m 28 and have never had a girlfriend. I've been on first dates but never once have I gotten a second date.
I don’t get it even with how you describe wanting to actually date a guy and not become friends if you are attracted to them intellectually, humor-wise, and physically. I’d say that I’m a good looking guy (5’10”, 140, slim toned build, dark hair, light blue eyes) and that’s not just coming from me either. And my friends seem to enjoy my sense of humor. On the intellectual front, I've not only traveled around the world and experienced tons of other cultures, but I’m finally getting around to finishing my bachelor’s degree and will be coming out of it with a triple major along with a certification. The school actually had to look that up to make sure it was even allowed (turns out it is). How can that not be considered intellectual? Most people are surprised to find out that I’m single when the subject comes up and the very few people I've actually told can’t believe I've never had a relationship with a woman. So why has no woman ever wanted to actually date me with the intention of something more than friendship as you describe it? I’m at a loss here.
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A
female
reader, Honeypie +, writes (4 December 2013):
Personally, I have never dated a friend. Friends are friends - potential partner is a whole other kettle of fish. Though back when I was your age (20+ years ago), the lines between friendships/relationships weren't so blurred as they seem to be today. Today people do the whole F-buddies and FWB.. Something that doesn't really make sense to me.
I think having friend of the opposite sex is great. But I think making friend with the intention of later on date them is a flawed idea. And obviously it's not working for you.
I think (at least for me) that when I met a guy whom I was attracted to on many levels, intellectually, humor-wise, physically I would date them, NOT becomes friends with them.
Now you say, you don't think people should sleep with someone and then hope to date later on, and I agree. That would be pure backwardness. But DATING and hanging out as friends are two VERY different things - or at least it should be.
The whole point of dating, then becoming exclusive, THEN sleeping together means that you are GETTING to know one another BEFORE sex, not becoming friends. If you aren't sure what the difference is, well with friends there is no sexual tension, with dating there sure is, or SHOULD be. And I'm not talking silly flirting here. Friendship IN a relationship comes WAY later, honestly. I think most couples who have dated quite a while becomes friends as well as being BF/GF.
I am not totally dismissing that you can make a friend and fall in love with them, I'm sure that happens. But again it will only work if BOTH parties feel the same way and the level of attraction.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): "Maybe I’m missing something, but I’d guess that most people don’t start by sleeping with a random stranger and hope a relationship develops later."
That's actually a lot closer to the truth than you think.
These days most women in their 20s don't usually sleep with a random stranger. But they do usually sleep with someone after knowing them only a matter of days or weeks, mostly over phone/text communication, and commonly spending less than 24 hours of total time with them in person first. Many young women spend their 20s basically accepting overtures from any guy they think is hot, getting to know him just long enough not to be terrified of him, and then sleeping with him to try to keep him interested until they decide if he's BF material.
If this sounds like a dumb plan, it usually is. I didn't say it was the smart way to find a man. I just said its the way tons of young women do it.
This is the key. By the time a girl knows you would make a great boyfriend, they have already ruled you out and put you in the Friend Zone. You need to be making your intentions clear (romantic attraction and at least some sexual urges) pretty soon after meeting them. The time you are spending getting to know them as "friends" first - that is the stage when they are usually sleeping with the guy already.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (4 December 2013): Everything that you are listing is just excuses. Of course there won't be "just friends" situation if they liked you enough and were attracted to you enough.
Believe it or not women these days very often JUST sleep with random strangers and some really hope that it will grow into relationship which almost never happens. Sex does ruins friendship though.
I ll give you an example. I knew this guy for 8 years. We went to GYM together and grabbed coffee sometimes, and even went to couple bars and concerts. He was to my taste: tall, handsome and slowly I somewhat developed this warm comfortable feeling for him, but still friendship was 98% of it. I think he felt the same way about me.
I was not his type though. He liked really slender, tall women, and I am 5.4, size 6. He even told me that. I laughed and said, o well, than we ll try to find you a size 2 then. One day we went for a party together, and we ended up in bed. I don't know may be he had too much to drink, but sex was not what I expected. He was not trying to please me, and didn't last very long .
We still were trying to maintain friendship, but after that it was hard. We needed up not calling each other any more, and few years later now we don't see or talk to each other. I heard he got married.
What I understood when guys or girls don't understand why they can't get a partner is that they are looking forthe wrong type of people. For example, some men really looking for a certain type of appearance. They are looking for a model type girls, being an average looking themselves. I am not saying that being average looking you can't get a very beatifull girl, but some men have standards that are just not realistic.
Also women, some want someone good looking, rich and a very nice personality. And they won't settle for anything slightly less, they won't even give a chance to someone who may be not that incredibly good looking and rich at the same time.
It's just a very simplified examples, but very high unrealistic standards sometimes are on a way for some people to get a mate. I witnessed it many times.
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A
female
reader, chigirl +, writes (4 December 2013):
What type of woman are you going for? The solution is probably to change hunting grounds, as well as test out new techniques.
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