A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:I would like to point something out that is making me feel really sad about the state of things. Every day women come on here asking for help for a porn related issue. Basically they say I'm really upset he looks and it's worse because he lies to me. Then a lot of people respond, well of course he lies, you MADE him lie because you're upset! So what we're telling women is, you have no right to voice your opinion when something makes you upset, because once we know you'll be upset, we'll just lie to you because it's easier than dealing with you. This means women who have problems with porn are trapped. It seems like it is almost always the woman who has to change. She either needs to deal with the hurt feelings, or go searching out for a guy who doesn't watch porn (this is very difficult seeing how hard it is to find a guy anyways, and according to a recent internet poll, 87% of men use porn at least occasionally). This just adds to the trapped feeling.When a man knows his woman is hurt severely by his porn use and he disregards her feelings, or worse lies about it from then on out, basically the message he is sending is, I care more about porn than you. No matter how he tries to justify it, if she is hurting from his porn use and he tells her to get over it or deal with it and keeps doing it, he is saying as much as I may care about you, I don't care enough about your feelings to stop doing something that makes you feel bad. Awhile ago a poster asked this question, which is a very valid one:"I know you'll say to him it's meaningless, but why is that the only thing that matters? Why isn't it important that to me it means something and makes me feel a certain way?"Isn't that a totally valid point? Yes asking a man to give up porn is in a way trying to change him, but asking a woman to get over her insecurities is asking her to change as well. Why is that more fair?Asking her to live with the porn is asking her to live with feeling miserable. Asking a man to give up the porn would probably not evoke nearly the same sense of despair that your watching would cause her (if it does, I think you may be in need of help for an addiction). Can porn be addicting? Of course it can. However, porn use doesn't have to reach levels of serious addiction to be hurtful.Before you launch into something about me being prude or insecure, I am neither. I LOVE sex. I have a higher sex drive than my partner. My partner and I don't have issues with this. I am very happy with my body and don't compare myself to porn stars, the same way I don't compare myself to friends who have larger breasts or a smaller waist. I have enjoyed watching porn and masturbating to it on numerous occasions. In fact porn gets me turned on faster than just about anything else. The reason I am writing this is that it makes me so sad to read these things from these women who are feeling so unbelievably sad and are given no other option than, deal with it because it is normal. If you bring it up, you will be lied to. Men have a right to porn, so you have no right to try to make them stop. Men (and women) also have a right to have sex with whoever they want, regardless of whether they are in a relationship. Does that mean you don't have a right to ask them not to have sex with other people too?When it gets to the point where a man lies and hides the porn from his partner and is unwilling to give it up even when it harms someone he cares about, isn't that pretty much the definition of an addiction? Just because something is normal doesn't mean it's good. Being sleep-deprived is normal nowadays. Is it good to be sleep-deprived simply because it's normal? The excuse that he lies to his partner because he's worried about her reaction or because he's embarrassed is really just that, a bad excuse. Sort of like telling a teacher that your dog ate your homework to avoid admitting you wanted to watch TV instead.I know a main thing men say is that it's totally harmless, well, it's actually not. It's not "no big deal." It's a big deal and an enormous chunk of the psychology world is trying desperately to get their message out.More than HALF (56% to be exact) of divorces in the United States are caused by porn related issues. Since the divorce rate is around 53% of total marriages, that means more than a quarter of all marriages end due to porn. This is more than end due to cheating. (Paul, 2005)A quote after a study was done on porn effects:"We feel confident in our findings that pornography is harmful. Our study involved more than 12,000 participants and very rigorous analyses. I can think of no beneficial effects of pornography whatsoever."- Researcher Dr. Claudio Violato, University of Calgary"After watching only six hours of nonviolent pornography, research subjects were much less likely to want to marry or have children than subjects in the control group." (Zillmann and Bryant 1989)."It is estimated that 15% of people using Internet pornography develop a compulsive habit that disrupts their lives." (Paul, 2004)"One psychiatrist specializing in treatment of sexual dysfunction estimates that 60% of his cases are directly related to the Internet." (The Sunday Paper, Atlanta)"The relationship between particularly sexually violent images in the media and subsequent aggression...is much stronger statistically than the relationship between smoking and lung cancer." -- Edward Donnerstein, 1983When viewing scantily clad women in "girlie calendars" the parts of men's brains used when looking at objects lit up while the part of the brain used for thinking about people, thoughts and emotions, didn't light up at all. Looking at these images caused men to view the women as less than human. -Professor Fiske, Princeton UniversityAs for the common excuse that men are more visually stimulated than women, it's actually not entirely true. Sure some men are more visually stimulated than other women, but in general women are very visually stimulated as well. A study awhile back measured both men's and women's arousal level while showing them sexual images (ranging from porn to animals having sex) showed that women are about equal in terms of visual arousal. So to say, well us men are just very visual beings so we admire the female form. That's all. So to say, women just don't understand is not really fair. See that's why we're upset, we do understand. We understand perfectly what is going on. And we don't care that you're not emotionally invested in them. Would we care if you were having a totally sexual affair with a woman you had no emotional connection to? Of course we would.As for whether or not porn is cheating, I really can't say. Some people consider checking out another woman cheating while some believe that so long as there's no penetration it's not cheating. So it's really not my place to say it is or isn't cheating, but really you are in fact being sexual actively outside the relationship with a third party. Like it or not, admit it or not, the women in porn are real somewhere and you are getting off to them. Many also use the excuse, well wouldn't you rather he watch porn than go out and cheat? But to many porn is cheating. Why are those the only two options? But to knowingly hurt someone you care about over porn? Why is that OK to do? Why is that normal?Finally, the answer that, well at least your sex life isn't suffering. Here's the thing guys. When a girl finds out her boyfriend has been watching porn behind her back and he continues to do so, she's not going to want to have sex with you much anymore. Many women on the site describe feeling repulsed by their boyfriend's porn watching habits and feeling physically sick when he touches them. Obviously feeling physically repulsed by a dishonest partner or one who seems to disregard her feelings is going to have a pretty serious effect on their sex life. Just because the man doesn't have different feelings for his girlfriend due to his porn habits, just because he does still love her and find her attractive doesn't mean she feels the same. As well, it's entirely possible for a person to cheat on a spouse and not love the spouse any less.I'm just wishing that the general attitude towards porn would be one where more men would be willing to try to understand rather than digging in their heels while screaming "it's my right to porn!" If more men were willing to try to communicate openly, to try to reach an understanding beyond, "get over it" it would be so much easier for couples to find a solution that makes both couples not angry (a compromise doesn't have to make everyone 100% happy, just one that both parties can live with). Should men have to immediately give up all porn because their partner is unhappy? Of course not. But if women should have to accept porn use with no conditions beyond don't tell me about it, men should have to give up something too. A relationship can't exist without compromise and trust, and if the man isn't willing to compromise on this or even be truthful then there isn't really a relationship at all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionq - I'm lucky in that my partner and I have ideas about sex and sex drives that absolutely perfectly match. Weird how that makes everything else so easy to deal with? It sounds like you got lucky too. I don't know why I get/got so riled up on the issue when it literally has no connection to my life whatsoever. I would reiterate my points, which I still believe, but you can read them below. I just wish people could be better at compromise... Maybe they should teach a class. I know I'm not that great at it. I did enjoy the debate (doesn't have to be over, but I think it's about to either go way off topic or get all circular).
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): Within reason... porn is fine.
Both women and me get turned on by porn.
Men love getting turned on... therefore they love porn. They are not necessarily wishing to be with the porn star in the film, but perhaps they are imagining the situation (with you in it). In the end does it matter? I watch porn rarely, as does my wife. But when we do we get very turned on. She loves seeing full fromtal male nudity, but she is no more wanting to have sex with the actor than I want to have sex with the actress. But the turn on we get enhances our relationship.
Word of caution:
1) Violent sex/violent porn is bad for everyone's psyche.
2) Porn that demeans women (or men) is bad.
3) Porn that appears truly consensual or where no one is taking advantage of the other is fine.
4) Too much porn is bad (I have seen impotent men at age 22... because they have watched too much and nothing turns them on anymore)
So in moderation (like everything else in life) porn is OK and will probably enhance your sex life. Too much (obsessions) will kill your sex life.
One last word of advise.... don't watch porn when you are young... it will screw up the way you see life, the way you see and love girls and boys. Do watch porn when you are older, mature, and looking to add spice to your sex life. You will be in a better place (more confidence, more sure of yourself) and this in turn will make for a healthier response to porn and to sex.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI like that story. That is more or less what I have been trying to say, but that we have somewhat of both in every one of us. No one is inherently good, no one is inherently evil. I like to think the majority people are more good than evil, but at times I question that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (18 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"In your declaration of the inherent evil of all mankind, I assume you will be exempting yourself and Wendy from this judgment."
Of course not. I've done some pretty awful things to people. I regret them, but I still did them. And just like I don't believe in inherent good in people, I don't believe in inherent evil. I don't recall using the term anywhere in my post. In your attempts to prove that I'm a self-righteous bitch you're twisting my words.
It seems you think that because I think people who think porn are more important than a woman's feelings I put myself on some kind of pedestal or something. I'm not sorry for feeling like compromising, rather than lying, hiding, or just flat out not caring and continuing just cause it's fun despite the immense pain being caused, is a good thing.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Murderers and rapists can never inherently be 'good' people."
I don't believe in people who are "inherently good." I don't think anyone can be. Ted Bundy worked at the suicide crisis center and was apparently great at what he did and helped a LOT of people. My friend was raped over 50 times in elementary school by her principal and he was considered one of the nicest people around and frequently went out of his way to help people and volunteered for charity. Everyone thought he was a great guy. It was the same story for the BTK killer. I'm not trying to draw a line between porn use and violent behavior at all. I'm just saying I don't think there's such a thing as inherent good. Most people are nice people, except that one thing that makes them not nice at least to someone. People can even find positive things about Hitler, arguably one of the most evil people to ever live. I'm not trying to argue this about porn or make any sort of connection with porn use, I'm just talking about inherent good totally out of context of porn or relationships especially since I like a lot of the points in Wendy's post.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): wendy here ,
something i wrote didnt get posted with my other 2 posts. Ill give it another bash.
i said that if i did see inside my boyfriends head while he was using porn if he used it , i would be physically sick.
I know full well what the use of porn is and that it is just sex and that is what bothers me.
Women know what porn does because like the op says it does the same for us too, and that is why we know we dont like our men using it and why we dont like what happends in his head when we are using. It would be a mistake tothink that women dont like thier men using it because we think something far greater is going on inside thjier heads. We hate it because they are doing what they are doing over other women. simple.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): wendy to Q The problem with your statement is that you say "you cant stand to see otherwise good men cast aside" well murderers can be otherwise good men, so can rapists, so can rascists, so can mysoginists, so can people with drug problems, so can men who have affairs they can all "otherwise be good men" but the fact is that if they are ot being good to their girlfriend and hurting her to the point of misery and not doing what he can to stop that pain at minimal cost to himself then he is being cast aside for a very good reason, and if a woman chooses to do this for her own mental wellbeing ,im not sure where telling that girl she cant do any better and will die alone comes into play. When the truth is that she could easily find someone who will care about her and her feelings much more than that. Also im not sure where telling a man its his god given right to use porn and not to give it up if he faces losing his girlfriend because her pain is not real pain its just a lack of understanding and a use of control comes into play. It is that man whos heart will be broken when she leaves for his stubborness or that mans relationship will suffer through his girlfriends pain.I can see where certain people who say "is there issues you can deal with to help accept this" have a point for a few cases. But its the total need for women to change something they cant so men can have something they can change that i cannot find helpful here at all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): wendy here.Celiaaletta, the place where the line is drawn is the place the couple agree it to be drawn.For many it will be sex with another woman or man .For other Sex with another man or woman live or in the use of porn.For others watching soft core porn in films.For others it will be desiring other people on the street.My boyfriend drew the line at desiring other people in the street and i respected that. For me it was having a crush on famous people he respected that. we compromised well and feel no worse for it. In fact i feel good about not window shopping, its made me focus on what i have much more than i ever did before. But the point is tat the line is drawn whereever the need lies.
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reader, anonymous, writes (17 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis is not the problems page, this is the articles page. I was writing about a problem I see popping up frequently on the site. My personal problem does not lie with porn. I'm not here to start to a fight with anyone.
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reader, Elydiese  +, writes (17 June 2010):
Then communicate more with your partner this is a problem page and yes where this seems a problem for a lot of people you have just ranted on so what is it your trying to say you gave up porn for your partner but he has now? I was not meaning to sound angry but i have no idea what it is that your trying to het an answer to. And to the sentence where i wrote 'The women in porn are real somewhere and you are getting off on them.' So you cant judge on that basis." Is because you yourself have "gotten off" to it, that is what i meant by that sentence. I think if you've got a problem you should let others help by actually asking a question that relates to this problem rather than writing a debate which frankly makes no sense. If your here to put your point across then carry on but dont argue with everyone who disagrees with you
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not contradicting myself at all. How am I contradicting? I'm saying porn is fine and dandy for a single person or a couple when it's fine by both parties. I'm not making an argument anywhere that porn in general is bad. I said I used to enjoy porn and that I gave it up for my partner. Not only am I not contradicting myself, I'm living what I'm arguing."'The women in porn are real somewhere and you are getting off on them.' So you cant judge on that basis."I'm not "judging" anyone for getting off to someone else. Your sentence doesn't even make sense. Even if I was judging, which I wasn't in this sentence, why does saying that equate with not being able to judge on that basis? I was just saying something that is true. The situation filmed in porn happened to a real person, somewhere in real life. And you took several things completely out of context. I'm saying it is in fact different from just a fantasy in someone's head and that porn is in fact a form of cheating, it's just an acceptable form for some couples.I'm not trying to man bash, but the problem of one partner ignoring the other's feelings in favor of porn is a mostly male problem. Of course there are exceptions. I just assign a gender so it's less confusing to read. More men watch porn than women too, though yes. I know plenty of women watch. I'm not saying you should't watch porn at all. I'm just saying it's disrespectful to completely disregard your partner's feelings on the issue. I don't understand why my post made you so incredibly angry when I don't say anywhere that porn shouldn't be watched by anyone.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): wow this really did turn into a long debate... Very interesting reading, mostly. Just like to add, op mentioned a post from someone sayin her bf would break up with her if she ever brought up porn again. That post is mine. I should clarify, its not if i bring up porn. Its if we continued to have arguements over it. We can watch porn together no worries, we can talk about aspects we like/dislike. Etc, its not bringin up porn, its bringin up an issue and fighting that we would break up over. Im aware fightin alot in a relationship isn't healthy. And that is my partners point. We recently have reached a compromise where he can use porn, get off to it, still have me, and not have endless and needless issues over it. The problem is not porn, it is the fact he was willing to lie and i knew he was lying, hence i was hurt by the lies. I fail to understand why someone who loves me would want to hurt me. Esp over something as small (to me) as porn. The only reason fights happen now are if i bring something up as an attack because i guess i wanted to show him how hurtful it can be (this took me ages to figure out, as i couldn't understand why i kept picking fights) Anyway, there are women who hate porn, women who love it, women who dont mind it but feel that they shouldn't be lied to, and many other opinions on it. There is no straight and narrow answer to anyone as to what is best. I chose the happy road (for me), i love my guy, we're going to be married next yr, and i was not going to allow a (now) old hurt to prevent that happening. Q- i guess im an example of someone who chose Not to leave her man cause of porn use. Although again, it wasn't the actual use that hurt me. Some women do get too hurt by porn for it to be the happy thing for them to stay. Men and women are different when it comes to how we view things and often our emotions are different. Thats not a bad thing, but in some areas we will simply never fully understand how the other sex views it. No rights or wrongs here. Perhaps it should simply be said that it is all choice for both men and women. Men can choose to be so stubborn that they refuse to help their partner understand or at least accept porn use, women can choose if its a problem for them they can leave that guy. Or both parties who love each other and wish to be together can work out something where both can be happy and then whatever issue there was, is no longer an issue. Thanks again for the debate, and showing so many different sides to a topic that can be difficult to talk about, for both parties. At the very least, it may help anyone hurting over porn see that so much can be different between one person and they next. But in the end it will be their own choice as to what they want out of a potential relationship. I guess if i wasn't happy in other areas of mine, lying about porn could of been a dealbreaker. But i am happy, and it is not.
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reader, Elydiese +, writes (16 June 2010):
You have been totally contradicting yourself. You say "I have enjoyed watching porn and masturbating to it on numerous occasions. In fact porn gets me turned on faster than just about anything else". Yet you then go on to say "The women in porn are real somewhere and you are getting off on them". So you cant judge on that basis. Then you go on to say "Just because the man doesn't have different feelings for his girlfriend due to his porn habits, just because he does still love her and find her attractive doesn't mean she feels the same". Why is this all about men. Millions of women watch porn, I watch porn even you say you watch it so whats with all the man bashing (no pun intended). Women choose this as their career so of course people are going to get off on them thats what they get paid for.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (16 June 2010):
 Hold your horses there.. ssome pretty bold claims, that basically puts down the lifestyle and culture of anyone that is not living your standard of lifestyle..
Women in polygomous marriages fight and are unhappy... mmmmm.. interesting claim... recent case involving a sect who had a policy of multiple wives found that the children were happy and well brought up in that lifestyle...
You state women are unhappy unless the relationship is monogomous.. your culture dosen't have mongomous relationships, look at the divorce rate, look at the number of people who have one partner after another.. what you have there is serial monogomy, and it's just destructive as any other type of relationship is... You want evidence, then just look across the pages of Dear Cupid and the stories of pain and suffering...
You take things much to far when you argue that one type of lifestyle is better than another...
Evoloutionary psychologist.. pppfff.. that's looking at what we have and then making up stories that fit... unhighly unscientific.. same of Functionalism.. an intellectual method discredited in the 1960's...
You cannot trace cause making assumptions with no evidence at all... You talk about child survival.. that dosen't point to monogomy or a nuclear family, that points to the necessity of community and tribe...
To many points to pick up on.. Anyway, I do notice that it suits people to pick up only on what Q's wife said about PMS.. the rest of her long argument has been ignored and rejected.. just like I supppose women who hate pornography are treated..
The argument has no solution, as Q said, cats and dogs.. the worse thing is, your intention is to comfort women who suffer like this.. however if you think that men will change their mind after reading about such suffering, think again...
Two named guys on this post, and they disagree with the arguements.. a lack of men are reading this, it's an arguement between women. Men will do what they always do, they will either look at porn and love it, or they won't be too interested in it, or they will hate it and have other things like religion that control their desires and change their lifestyle...
This last post was badly argued and has been a disappointment compared to what you have written earlier..but all in all, a very enjoyable discussion.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm sorry if my last post sounded angry, but comparing porn use to PMS is incredibly sexist and basically just said to take women down several notches. Kind of like, "yeah, well you find our porn annoying? I find your PMS annoying. Take that."
I don't think women are trying too hard. How are women trying too hard? Men do something that hurts some women, the women want them to stop and the men tell them to deal, get over it, and that it's a man's thing and to suck it up. So women keep trying to get men to see how it hurts, men keep being stubborn (not all men, but many) and refusing to so much as talk about it. One person posted just a few days ago that her boyfriend told her he'd break up with her for even bringing it up again.
Chigirl said "I don't buy that there are genetically differences between men and women that causes men to NEED porn in order to get off."
It's actually true. Men are not more physically aroused than women when viewing porn, it's been shown in several studies. The reason women don't enjoy it is because a) the majority of porn is not made for women to enjoy, we don't enjoy watching men hurt, humiliate and degrade other women. b) the problem they found in the studies done on this was that physically the women responded almost equally with the men, but they were not aware what they were feeling as well.
Furthermore evolutionary psychologists have determined that humans are in fact meant to be in pairs and to be monogamous. A good way to view this is that in parts of the Middle East men are allowed multiple wives. If monogamy was a social construct then women raised to believe in polygamy would be OK with it. That is not the case. Women in those situations are often jealous of each other, fighting, and just generally stressed about the other women. We don't have examples of this in the world since in many parts of the world women still aren't human, but I'd guess based on studies of chimpanzees where females have multiple male partners that men would feel just as jealous and insecure. Men aren't programmed to spread their seed either. When humans first evolved the population density was so incredibly low that the likelihood of finding other females nearby within less than a week was practically nil. Humans also are not the most fertile. Women don't get pregnant particularly easy. The chances of happening upon a woman, having sex with her, and her getting pregnant are very low. The chances of her getting pregnant if he remained around her are MUCH higher. Furthermore, the chances of the baby surviving if he just takes off are pretty low. Plus another man would come along and kill the child to raise his own (this happens with numerous other primates). So it made more sense for the man to stick around until the baby was old enough to survive on its own. With chimpanzees the females are actually the ones who are constantly seeking out new males while the other males try to stop them. Natalie Angier wrote an article about this in the New York Times that while slightly overly passionate, I found to be very interesting.
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/21/magazine/men-women-sex-and-darwin.html?scp=58&sq=
I know it seems like I'm trying to "disprove" everyone, but the point of this post was to start a discussion. People take apart my argument and try to provide a counterargument, and then I have a rebuttal. Well I guess really the point of my post was that I was hoping I could help some couple somewhere try to reach a middle ground because men rarely will compromise on this issue. Jmtmj your post on "Why is Porn Bad" made me smile, but you have to realize that most men aren't as (I don't know what word to use, but something positive/selfless) as you are. That's why we debate.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): Wendy here
OP and Chigirl you said everything that i wanted to say word for word.
These were great points and i dont see how were in any way just for the sake of winning. In fact i see the same things coming up that Chigirl, Op and i have all adressed perfectly adequetly already, it would be nice to see some of the valid points we made being adressed instead of going back to something thats already been done, hence why i say this discussion is wearing down.
Its obvious Q1605 will not accept what we have to say about this and that all men will wank to porn and that women are not visual or sexual in that a girls porn is pms, its a shame but what we have to remember is that this post has already helped one couple and no doubt it will continue to help many women and open many mens eyes. This sort of thing will never matter to Q1605 or people in his position as he has his porn and a wife who likes it too. He's made. The people who it will matter to are people who are being affected by porn, women who can show this to thier men to backup thier feelings and to men who are being asked to quit porn and never really understood the real depth of their girlfriends pain.
What the op has done here is brilliant. I really dont see the point in debating against a message written for people who are having problems with porn, well directed at men to open thier eyes to the hurt they are causing thier girlfriends if the person debating is a man who is married to a woman who is not in any pain from his use of porn. Thats not a jab at Q1605 i just thought it was worth pointing out that you have to be there or of been there to really know.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): I like miamines point adressing the differences between porn making you feel fat and porn feeling the same as cheating .But even if a woman didnt like porn because they felt like they would be compared or cant measure up, that is still going to hurt them. There is more chance of this person being able to accept porn, or find a compromise though. although due to her pain it still makes more sense to me to ditch the porn and not make her have to go through that sort of thing. Espcially if that girl is otherwise confident in herself. For example sometimes a perfectly confident woman can become insecure and inadequete simply because the addition of porn into her relationship.q1605, you can have the perspective of a man from the same upbringing as you and the same society and the same moral background and the same ethnicity etc but on the whole this covers a minority of all men im sure. Women have the added perspective of encountering many more men than a straight man would on an intimate level. We get the intimate details they wouldnt hare or admit to thier mates.we have 2 women with men against porn in this one discussion. So id say that if a woman choose the path of staying clear of men who wont quit porn for them they will have plenty of opportunities to find men that will, and if not a single life dating people without commitment might even be a better option than hurting themselves with someone who dosent really care about what they do to hurt them.Celiaaletta people can find a way to be happy without porn as well as with it. im quite sure you have nothing to apologise for, i wasnt being defensive i was just trying to get the point across that there dosent have to be a reason for feeling porn is cheating or hurt from it other than you actually just feel it is cheating. It is quite simple that masterbating to porn is a sexual act involving other women that your boyfriend is involved in. Why would there need to be anything wrong with you to feel that is hurtful or similar or the same as cheating ? Im not saying there is anything wrong with you if you dont feel that way also , but yuo dont have to be insecure or traumatised to feel that way.To q1605, i think i make up most of the anon posts as you can se the conversation goes back and forth. I am going to remain anon due to the fact i have posted a rather personnal question on dear cupid and i dont mind that but i have linked it to a few of my friends. That is ok with me. On the other hand i am writing alot of personnal things here about not just me but my boyfriend also and he has asked me to remain anon, we are very private people. and i wouldnt share anything this peronnal with an identity let alone one that my friends can identify me with.If you like i will adress myself as wendy but im pretty sure that this disscusion is wearing down now so im not sure how much more i will be posting.
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reader, Jmtmj  +, writes (16 June 2010):
 Yeh I suppose Chigirl, but I think I'll read it all when it comes out in hardcover edition. Until then I must go forward, not backward. Upward, not forward. And always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
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reader, chigirl  +, writes (16 June 2010):
 But it's so much fun :D
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reader, Jmtmj +, writes (16 June 2010):
Q's wife - I second that bravo :)
And to OP... You started this post sounding informed and open minded, now you just seem to be arguing for the sake of winning, trying to disprove everything anyone says really isn't promoting the idea of compromise. Some good points have been raised on both sides, can't we just rub our chins, say "that was an interesting discussion" and end this quest to be king of the hill?
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reader, chigirl +, writes (16 June 2010):
If anyone read my answer to Celiaaletta about how to compromise on the porn issue, you will see a lot of variety and possibilities. A man can get by without porn. Women get by without porn. Porn is only one thing that adds to the experience of masturbation. There are other things. Especially toys. So: no porn does not equal no masturbation, or no enjoyment of masturbation.
I enjoy my times masturbating a whole lot. I don't watch porn while masturbating. I know men who don't need to watch porn while masturbating. I don't buy that there are genetically differences between men and women that causes men to NEED porn in order to get off. As teenagers both men and women have hormones flying all over the place, and it is clearly displayed in how guys are thinking about sex a lot, while girls come on here saying they want babies. Which actually means; they want sex too. But as far as genetics go I think it stops there.
Society affecting us to think porn is wrong? Maybe. In my upbringing porn has been accepted. But girls masturbating was not so accepted. No one heard of that. No one talked about that. I'd hear guys in my class talking openly about it to each other! This gives me the idea that men think they are the only ones who want porn, the only ones who masturbate etc etc, and so porn is a "mans thing".
The sexual liberation of women only started 40 years ago, and had a slow start. Give us a break. We'll catch up to you in terms of use of porn or toys or having causal sex etc. In the meantime maybe not take a piss all over porn and call it "a mans thing", because it really isn't. I don't think you can keep hiding it away as something so manly that only men can comprehend it. And speaking of that, why should women have to understand how the man feels about porn? Why shouldn't the man equally understand how the woman feels about porn? Porn isn't about sexuality. You are still hetero or homo or bisexual or trans or whatever you please, without porn being there. You are also allowed to masturbate, have sex, do whatever.
The only way I know for a woman to control her PMS is to go to the doctor for pills. So you are saying we should send men to the doctor to take their pills, so they can change into what we want them to be? Women do you know, they do try to control their PSM, and many also do go get pills because they understand how harmful a crazy PMS can be (and you should also be aware that PMS is not a common thing, not all women get it, and it is an extremity). So if women do that, and you think porn and PMS can be compared, should we not also expect men to do the same?
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo you're saying a woman who chooses to have PMS because she chose to let her hormones loose in her body is making a man put up with the same things that he is making her put up with when he chooses to watch porn? One is a choice, the other isn't. You actually say, "women should have more control over them hormones that give women PMS" and I can't tell if you're saying that seriously or to make the point that men have as much control over porn as women do over their ability to control their hormones, but either way it's more than a little flawed and the second one is just flat out insulting to men (they have no choice? Really?).
"Feeling hurt and betrayed because a man watches porn are feelings a person has control over they choose to feel that way.
No one makes you."
No one makes them look at porn either and feelings are much less of a choice than looking at porn is a choice. I don't think women choose to feel horrible, cheated on, and insecure because it's fun. Whereas men choose to use porn simply because it's fun, regardless of the impact it might have on his partner.
"For women or men if it is a deal breaker for them, would it not be prudent to discuss this prior to diving in and not after?"
Yes that would be nice if we could all carry around cards that list everything that might be a dealbreaker and pass them out on first dates. A recent poll by MSNBC found that 70% of men lie about their porn use to their partner. This is why it's frequently so hard on the woman. The man says he doesn't, so she believes him, and then winds up with her heart broken. Most women do tell their partner if porn is a problem. The majority of the users just lie about it figuring it's not a problem if she doesn't know about it.
"Part of compromise is trying to see it from a mans perspective."
Yes and part of the compromise is seeing it from the woman's perspective, which it seems almost no men are ever willing to do. Most of the posts on here from women who are upset with porn sound like they are practically pleading with the answerers on here to give them a drug to make them not be bothered. The women mostly seem to be wishing it didn't bother them and they list every reason men give about why it shouldn't, and they just cannot stop letting it bother them no matter what they try.
"You never know. Has the woman ever watched it? Have they ever tried to share it with their partner?"
Many have, yes. Frequently it has no positive effect or makes them feel worse.
"Fantasy in your head no different then on a screen."
It's very VERY different. That's like saying imagining what a movie you want to see is about versus going to the movie. In what way are they the same? I'd rather have my boyfriend fantasizing about someone he met than watching a porn star he will never meet. Why? Because a fantasy is still HIM.
I'm not going to get into whether this is or isn't q since you two basically seem to say the exact same things about how women being bothered by porn is entirely the woman's fault, but basically all you're saying in your post is that women aren't trying hard enough (though I very strongly beg to differ), that men shouldn't have to do anything to compromise on the issue, and that women who try to get their partners to stop doing something that hurts them are controlling. What part of your post puts any responsibility to try to help the situation on the man? Your entire post just places 100% of the problem on the women and none on the man. You claim it is entirely up to the women to compromise or give in, but you can't compromise without both people being involved. My understanding is most men won't even talk about it. Furthermore you say twice in your post that asking a man to give up porn is asking him to stop masturbating. I never said anything about masturbation and masturbation can be done without porn. Less fun? Maybe, but it's definitely still fun and doable. You mentioned the old vibrator debate, which we discussed at length below. The consensus was most women would be willing to give up or at least compromise on vibrator use in exchange for giving up or compromising on porn. People have and always will masturbate. And for most of our existence people have done so largely without porn.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (16 June 2010):
BRAVO!!!!!!!!! Hahahaha... very wise words... and have you put Q in a box forever.. no problem, we'll have you as you make more sense.. :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): celialletta, i didnt divert i simply said that the porn was worse because of "b" , it didnt cause "a" but it added "b" (a being the hurt and b being the disgust) to "a"
i have no childhood trauma no insecurity no nothing, plain and simple i see it as cheating. maybe you did have a childhood trauma and maybe you did blame that for your pain . But i on the other hand have no other issue than i see it the same as cheating (along with millions of other women)
i never said i had a childhood trauma which reinforces my fact that maybe you are pushing your own reassurances that you need to accept your own path on to other people.
sure it made me feel worse for my boyfriend when i saw him degrading women in that way, and less so when it was a woman that wanted sex with my ex (not ex at the time). that part was just pity for someone i thought better of.
the hurt as i said was the same. you completely took apart my point there.
"And it's not like the woman is trying to force him to give up his friends or drag him to some party, she trying to get him to stop hurting her", another quote i love
q1605 , you can already see on this one little post that both mine and the op's boyfriends have a problem with porn.i hate to see all men tarnished with the same brush. you can speak for yourself, not all men.
and it might be worth pointing out that the cheating most girls find in porn is the actual masterbating to it. not thinking that so n so is cute with thier clothes on, ill admit i dont like that either, but its not sex.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (15 June 2010):
Thank you dear caller, this is one of the best pornography posts I have ever read.. It has been wonderfull listening to people with different views and experiences without the anger and people ignoring the other point of view.
Women who are upset with pornography because "it makes them feel inadequate.. prefers porn girls to me.. makes me realise I'm fat or ugly... would be happy if the porn girls had small breast, real breasts, red hair, green hair, were asian, white, looked like me, looked less like me....."
These women I feel and it's just my opinion, do show issues arround insecurity and have faulty sense of womanhood and body image, but it's just my opinion..
Women who say that "pornography is cheating... or pornography betrays love.. or pornography should not be needed because he has me now.. I never have fantasy which does not include my man...." these women's arguments are much harder to ignore. Their conception of love and marriage does not allow any desire but from partner-partner. In these cases, there is no insecurity, but a romantic and exclusive view of sex and love.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (15 June 2010):
There is tons of compromise to be made. One example is that the guy and girl talk about this first, decide how important this type of stimulation is to him, and have the girl pick out what he can watch. Maybe she only has a problem with certain types of porn (like one woman who was raped and had concerns about her boyfriend watching rape/violent porn), but allows other types. Maybe she has a problem with girls looking the same age as her own daughter. Or, if she dislikes all porn, could offer to make some for him with her in it. Or, the man could turn to other types of stimulants.
This also depends on what the woman in question feels, maybe she will be comfortable with him reading a magazine, or watching pictures of women, but wont accept porn movies. Or maybe the man can read erotic novels. There are plenty of options. Many people don't watch porn but do other things to get in the mood. This is just a few examples. If there is a will there is a way like they say, and if both are willing to compromise arrangements can be made. Like you mention, he only watches it when alone at home or something. Plenty of options. Some women on here have a problem with a man watching it in their own house while they are there, but might not be so offended if they were far away from each other at the time.
Miamine (sorry for using you as an example) can dislike sports so much she wont date a sports lover, and we all accept that as normal. At least I accept it as her choice and it is fair enough. We're not telling her she has a subconscious problem or troubled childhood and that she needs to work on herself. If we follow that road everything leads to deep psychology. Which I may add would be a complete waist of resources and time, as it is not sure if you'd find anything to work on at all. People are different. For some porn is a real issue in itself, and not a manifestation of their inner child's insecurities.
I am glad you were able to over come it, but as I am highlighting: people are different. For some women trying to change themselves might not be possible. And some I am sure wont even try, because they do have a right to dislike porn. They shouldn't be forced to get over it. They just need to find a man who fits their standards. Women all over the globe have standards. I don't think they will end up alone with cat hair on.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (15 June 2010):
The problem is 50% of women won't put up with or don't want to put up with porn, but only 20% of men feel the same way
Very important statistic...that leaves 80% of men and 50% of women not having such negative feeling against pornography..
Yes those that dislike it have a right to such feelings.. but with these statistics the majority of men and half of all women do not have a problem..
The 50% of women who dislike pornography have a real problem if most of the men like it... men, they have less of a problem, 50% of women do not have an issue with pornography..
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"'Is it worth giving up a guy over? Not if the guy thinks porn is worth giving up the girl'
good quote , if a man thinks that porn is worth more to him than the girl and her pain, what are you really losing in dumping that man?"
Thanks Chigirl and anon, couldn't have said it better myself. Great points! Yes Chigirl, you've got it right.
I never said I find Celiaa opposition! I was just confused at the sudden difference in opinion when she herself made many of the same arguments I'm making now.
And q, you tell women they're being controlling in this case by trying to make men do exactly what they want, but when a man won't talk about it or compromise, he's being just as bad making her agree with whatever he wants unconditionally. And it's not like the woman is trying to force him to give up his friends or drag him to some party, she trying to get him to stop hurting her. To claim that porn is harmless when it's clearly causing someone harm is kind of like sticking your just sticking your head in the sand. And by sand I mean porn and head I don't mean on your neck. Sure, if both parties enjoy porn, no problem, no harm. But if someone is harmed, how is it harmless...? It's not just a few insecure women who are hurt, it's around half of women in relationships who find this a problem (according to a poll by the Kinsey Institute as well as several other online polls conducted by magazines, blogs, books, etc...). The problem is 50% of women won't put up with or don't want to put up with porn, but only 20% of men feel the same way. Also, even if a woman is being insecure, why does that mean her feelings should be disregarded? I'm unsure as to why insecure=don't listen to her opinions on anything that makes her unhappy or specifically that makes her more insecure.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (15 June 2010):
Thanks, I realize now it was badly worded, but you got my point. Thank you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): "Is it worth giving up a guy over? Not if the guy thinks porn is worth giving up the girl"
good quote , if a man thinks that porn is worth more to him than the girl and her pain, what are you really losing in dumping that man?
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reader, chigirl +, writes (15 June 2010):
I don't see how compromise should be excluded however. If a hypothetical relationship is otherwise brilliant I'd say you are lucky. Is it worth giving up a guy over? Not if the guy thinks porn is worth giving up the girl. If both want each other there is room for compromise. This is up to each individual couple.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (15 June 2010):
Of course they have a right to get upset and feel hurt. That's how they feel and that is there right. But a person has a right to feel upset and hurt about anything. I hate a man who watches sports, I think it makes him aggressive and turns him into a misyognist who starts attacking woman. It's my right to feel upset if a man perfers watching the world cup to sitting down with me... But, he has the right to watch what he wants, I can't stop him, it's up to me to either learn to accept that he and his desires are different from me and mine, or to leave him and find a man more suitable.
Yes, I don't date sports lovers for this reason and if I hate pornography it would be a deal breaker for me.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): cant speak for the op chigirl but your post hit the nail on the head for me.to q1605 , women dont say "stop or ill leave" they say if im honest with you about this i can honestly say i cannot deal with this in any way shape or form. it hurts me similar to or like cheating so im being honest with you or myself when i say i cannot stay with you if you continue to use porn. i hope you dont choose the porn over me" this is perfectly acceptable.its when a man then chooses to lie to keep a mismatch girl in his ties that is whats wrong.the compromise comes from through life and years spent together sometimes at some point each person will loose out on something they wouldnt normally loose out on if they lived alone. the reward for that is spending your life with someone that makes life far better than the things you leave behind or sacrifice ever could.for example, if i wanted to live in the country because my asthma was made worse in the city but my boyfriend wanted to live in the city because the local bookies was 5 minutes away, it is clear that my boyfirend would have to decide whether he wanted me or the bookies on call more. if i wanted a sports car and my boyfriend wanted a family saloon because he cant fit his biking equipment onto the sports car i would have to choose if id rather choose to insist on the sports car and effect my boyfriends happiness in doing so.you weigh up the sides of things and if its a case of extreme hurt equivilant to the hurt of cheating it seems clear who's turn it is to compromise to me.these guys are not perfectly good guys if they know they are causing so much pain to their girlfriend . a girl should feel loved , its not love to hurt someone that badly.i left someone who used porn, and its the best thing i ever did. being single was better in itself, but now being with someone who equally hates porn is the icing on the cake. he is the perfect one , not my ex.i found my match and other girls can too. but isnt it better to not choose porn over someone you love anyway.i dont see celiaalletta as opposition, i just worry the message that it sends out to say that these feelings women have can just be swept aside , or that they need mental help.i dont have any baggage , i just dont like porn. and this is the same for so many women. yes if you carry baggage that has made you have issues with anything then indeed sort it out. but its not right to say that all women who see porn as cheating or unaceptable do so because they have baggage, it can actually be just the way they and millions of other women feel about it.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (15 June 2010):
I'm still rooting for the article writer. She is not the one with the problem here, and I don't have a problem with porn either, so personal attacks aren't called for. However, from our viewpoint (take that I understand what the OP means), porn has been made into a mans "right". Everyone has the right to do as they please, of course, but a woman also has the right to not accept it. The issue lies when people deny a woman that right. She HAS to accept something she does not want to accept.
Now, there is a fine line between what you should accept in your partner, as no one is perfect, and what you simply can not accept. We all have our "deal breakers". There are plenty of women out there who have porn as a deal breaker. Should we call them stupid or ignorant or drama queens over that? The general consensus is yes. They must be crazy, and how will they ever find a man if they can't get off their high horse and accept that porn is innocent.
But do we really have a right to tell these women to just get over it? Not really. And is it fair to force them to accept it? No. If they don't want to accept porn then they have every right to not accept porn. The issue is being ridiculed when they are simply told to get over it. People value different things, for some, porn is a huge problem. And we should respect that, and not brush it under the carpet.
Did I get it right OP?
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"They will not compromise,they will not change and they will not leave the man."
Yes, but it's the same problem with the man if you just change one word, really more so. "[Men] will not compromise, they will not change," so the only option left is for women to leave, which is not easy if you love the person. Women are hardly ever given the option to compromise on this issue. The choices they are given are deal or leave. Usually it sounds like when the woman tried to talk about it with her boyfriend he blows her off, gets angry, or worse lies about it and does it just the same. I bet if a man was willing to compromise on the issue fewer women would be so hurt.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): women who are hurt by porn are not prejudiced. they are simply hurt by porn. ive not seen any come here for back up, they come here because they want advice. instead they are subjected to all sorts of comments rangeing from get over it or die alone to men have a right to porn and your are just controlling.
i agree that the odd comment saying have you tried watching it too, or have you tried thinking about it from a differant perspective , or have you tried a compromise , or have you tried this and that to accept it may be helpful.
but its not helpful at all to tell women that they are just controlling or insecure or that there is something wrong with them and they will die alone if they dont let any boyfriend they get have porn.
yes some women find that after a little compromise or a little perpesctive change or even trying it out can accept porn or at least not dwell on it . but for many this is not an option, it is almost as bad as cheating or simply as bad as cheating to them and they have every right to feel that way and to expect that if thier boyfriend cared about them and their well being then they would give up porn along with sex with live women.
there is nothing wrong with women who refuse to accept porn , there is nothing wrong with knowing yourself well enough to know that you will never feel comfortable with your boyfriend masterbating to porn.
the issue comes for alot of women where they have been lied to about it. so they believe they have this wonderful man who they trust and then they find out they have been using porn behind their back. yes its the right thing to do to leave if they will never accept it, but its a process, they have to get over the lie and the loss of something they believed they had together when actually they didnt.
i think this post holds an important message and that is that porn is indeed harmful to many girls, men , relationships, and this harm is unessasary and that asking a man/woman to give up porn isnt about insecurity or control, its about love.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): i have indeed experienced both walking in on my (ex) boyfriend masterbating to porn and well coming home to another ex as another woman was leaving my house. and i can say with absolute honesty they both hurt the same.
touch is superficial, the eyes are the window to the soul. in his mind he had his hands all over that woman he was having his pornograhic sexual encounter with.
if anything the porn hurt more as it hurt to watch the man who i had worshipped the ground he walked on was there looking so pathetic using something i find to be degrading to women to simply get a thrill from. we have a daughter who is now probably not much younger than the girl i saw on screen, i wondered to myself how he would feel if one day some old bloke was doing that over our daughter in a porno. at least the woman who came to my house for sex wanted sex with him too and wasnt being degraded and of an apropriate age.
althouh the whole women being degraded this is not my reason for feeling the hurt, i think it just added a huge ammount of disgust.
i can understand why someone might not agree but i do not understand why anyone would find it so hard to believe, except for what the op has wrote. to go from hating porn and being deeply distressed by it to spending days saying its not understandable to have a problem with porn or to be deeply ditressed to people online, prehaps shows a little bit of insecurity about your own desision, like you've been told to get over porn and now you feel to accept that, you have to make others do the same on a daily basis.
like the op says im not trying to be rude just get to the bottom of this distict lack of empathy or even a simple acceptance of people who do actually feel that porn would destroy thier relationships in the same way cheating with a live woman would.
i like the ops quote about it being like being hit by a car or by a bike. but to me and many others its like being hit by a ford or a peugeot. there are so many sites out there where women write in to get support with what they are going through with porn from one another.
the storys are so heartfelt and soul destroying. its out there and it real, the pain porn is causing in relationships is massive.
not sure if your meaning of superficial is that it is shallow, well sex with a woman other than your girlfiend is also shallow, so clearly porn is the same on that level. if you meant the trivial definition of superficial, if you look online you dont have to go far to realise that trivial it isnt. its destroying peoples lives and thats not trivial.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (15 June 2010):
Celiaaletta is one of our stars, yes she had a problem with pornography, but when she came here for advice, she actually listened to the answers she was given and was willing to think through things logically and change her situation.
Many people come to Dear Cupid just to have their prejudices confirmed, or to vent and cry at their situation, but refuse to do the mental work to consider things from another point of veiw..
This is my problem with the ladies who are anti-pornography. They will not compromise,they will not change and they will not leave the man... There is nothing we can do to help solve their problems, we cannot change men and what they desire. There is no way to FORCE a man to give up pornography if that's what he likes to look at..
The saddest thing is watching these ladies in pain. They have no solutions, and they keep crying about the same thing... If you hate pornography so much, then you MUST leave the porn watching guy... there is no other solution if you cannot understand the enjoyment he finds from it.
It dose you or me little good to sympathise and agree about your experiences.. the problem still remains unsolved, your guy likes pornography and you hate it..
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Imagine walking into your bedroom and finding your partner in bed with another woman straddled across his hips.
Now imagine your boyfriend in the bedroom alone masturbating to an erotic video.
The reaction would be the same either way? Really? 0_0"
For some women, yes. For others it's not quite on the same level, but still painful. Just because it's not exactly as bad doesn't mean it doesn't still hurt. It's like comparing getting hit by a car to being hit by a bike. They both hurt a lot, just one more than the other. What different does it make?
Also, why are you so hard on people who are anti-porn when you yourself had SERIOUS problems with it only several years back? I saw you posted a really sad sounding question (one of the saddest I've read) despairing about your boyfriend (or anyone) using porn and now you answer women's questions about this telling them their concerns are stupid. What's up with that? I don't mean to be super rude, I'm just confused by it. I do quite enjoy reading your answers.
You said, and I quote, "While you assert that pornography is "meaningless," why would it be asking too much for one's partner to understand and discontinue usage of it if it negatively affects the other?"
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 June 2010): to the person who says that asking a man to give up sex with other women is differant to asking him to give up porn because its totally differant things- it is in fact very similar if not just the same to many women. i know that i would feel exactly the same if my boyfriend used another woman to climax, id feel the same whether it was having sex or masterbating to porn. so it is a point of opinion.hyperthetically speaking if my boyfriend asked me to get rid of anything that was deeply hurting him i would get rid of it ( as long as it was in the realms of sex and not simple controlling behaviour like telling me what to wear). the comparison for my pleasure and his pain would be no contest, i would not enjoy something knowing it hurt the man i love so deeply. he wouldnt even need to ask. i think this is where alot of men who stick thier guns about porn much to the detriment of the mental health of thier loved ones are missing the point.i can see why a man might want his girlfriend to give up a viberator and why a girl might want a man to give up porn. but they are separate. yes of course if a man gives up his porn and a vibrator upsets him then she should consider his feelings too. but if a vibrator is simply a surogate penis then a lubed hand is most definatly a surrogate vagina, and that is the only place you can lay comparison with vibrators, not in porn. so if a woman using a vibrator makes men as bad as women feel about porn like its cheating, then so is a man using a lubed hand!now thankfully i dont need a vibrator to masterbate but my boyfriend DOES need lube to masterbate. so some women do need to use vibrators and some men do need lube others dont, and the ones who dont need dont understand enough to say that they shouldnt use it to aid masterbation. and those who do use lube shouldnt say that a woman shouldnt use a vibrator just because they gave up something you cant compare and that is the use of other women in porn.i stand by my standards that porn is not acceptable to me in my relationships and im certainaly not going to die alone. my boyfriend holds the same standards and we are stronger and more secure and romantic for it . life is good.men are not children, they are grown men . children are still learning thier lessons in life and that is why they are children, they simply cannot grasp the concept of being told they cannot have something that they see other kids having as in they dont have that mental capacity yet.if you were to tell a child not to eat ice cream just for the hell of it no explaination why it would be a form of simply tormenting the child, espcially if they saw other children enjoying thier ice cream.a grown man is able to grasp the concept of the hurt that they would cause thier girlfriends and understand their part in the responsibility for the pain caused to the person they love. it is this understanding that separates us grown ups from children. so yea you can ask a man to stop using porn without it just being to torment them. they dont have to watch other men using it and feel jealous , and they can understand why it is being asked of them. and if they are decent enough then they can use a bit of control and respect and not end up lying to the one they love and causing all sorts of damage to any number of lives for something so they should be able to take or leave if there is no addiction problem.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (14 June 2010):
Indeed Q.. a better comparison is asking a 5year old to give up ice-cream.. now the child dosen't NEED, ice-cream, and it's bad for it's health, but there is something about ice-cream that attracts the 5year old, and even if he promises never to eat it again, it's not a promise an adult can ever believe...
In the matter of porn, I suggest you think of men as chidren..
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionq - "You try to hold men to these standards, you will die alone and covered in cat hair."What standards exactly other than if we ask them to not use porn they'd be willing to compromise rather than lie to us or tell us to deal? That doesn't seem like a very high standard to ask someone to compromise, but maybe you're talking about a different standard."Even though porn and vibrators aren't the same thing, I can certainly draw a parallel between the two if both make the other feel inadequate."Most definitely. People should be willing to compromise on both things if it makes the other feel inadequate. What often happens with porn issue (when it's an issue) though that you don't often hear about with vibrators is that the men will secretly be masturbating to it, lie about it, and then refuse to even talk about it let alone try to compromise or try to understand the other. If that was happening with a vibrator it would be equally infuriating and sad, though like Chigirl said the vibrator is closer to lube for the guy than to porn since it doesn't involve other people and wouldn't generally be considered cheating.
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reader, src5404 +, writes (13 June 2010):
 I would really be hurt if my boyfriend used porn, it would make me feel like I wasn't good enough or the thought of me wasn't good enough to turn him on. Granted I do provide him with something, video or pictures, if I am away for an extended amount of time. But saying they have to use porn to make the experience better is just plain wrong if you are in a committed relationship. Sure if you're single by all means please yourself but use porn while with a women is degrading, unless she is into it as well. This should be discusses with your partner to know where she stands. Its just important to consider which one do you value more? Porn or the security of your partner? I would feel insecure with my boyfriend, trying to perform to his images, which would just make me not enjoy being with him sexually anymore. Porn isn't intimate and losing intimacy in a relationship is killer.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2010): Even though porn and vibrators aren't the same thing, I can certainly draw a parallel between the two if both make the other feel inadequate. For me personally, I didn't care about my ex's vibrator until occasionally after "gettin' busy" and both "finishing" we'd lay back down all flustered, then I'd hear the buzzing, look over, she'd flash a grin and I'd roll my eyes. Not a big deal for me, but I know there's guys out there who would totally take that personally.
I think just knowing that my hypothetical partner would be willing to give up the hypothetical vibrator, if I gave up the un-hypothetical porn:- it would completely settle this issue for me... hypothetically... I wouldn't dig my heels in stubbornly because of the principle of the matter and it kinda makes giving up porn feel less like a sacrifice and more like a compromise... Which is what relationships are all about I guess.
(NOTE) Again.. I know they ain't the same... I just can't resist hypothetical's... where I have a hot hypothetical girlfriend... ;)
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Hypothetically, if your boyfriend was getting insecure and hurt by your use of a vibrator because it made him feel innadequate, would you consider getting rid of it to make him happy?"
I actually was in this situation. My boyfriend really dislikes that I sometimes need it to finish. At first I did just get rid of it. But after I didn't finish two nights in a row, he was the one who wanted to bring it back. We talked about it and decided that he could pick my new one and that I wouldn't use it to masturbate unless we were apart for several days and couldn't have sex, and he said since I couldn't, he wouldn't either.
A compromise someone could reach with porn for instance is that he wouldn't watch it on his own, but that the couple could watch it together. It's actually my boyfriend who doesn't like porn, while I do, so I don't do it. I guess since I've been in that situation of giving up porn and reaching a compromise about the vibrator for a partner is why it's so hard for me to see why a person would be so unwilling to even discuss it despite the fact that it makes their partner feel like crap. Yes she could "get over it" but how many people do you know who can "just get over it" once told to do so? Whereas stopping porn would be just stopping. Actions are a lot easier to change than feelings.
Celia - I'm not saying they're the same thing, that porn and having sex with other women are the same amount of cheating. What I meant was that we really have no right to tell someone not to have sex with other women and it's really not that much different to ask someone to stop looking at porn too.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (13 June 2010):
Yeah, I guess. Never had that situation happen though, so it's hard to say.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2010): Hypothetically, if your boyfriend was getting insecure and hurt by your use of a vibrator because it made him feel innadequate, would you consider getting rid of it to make him happy?
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks so much for that female anon, great point. I find it to be incredibly unfair when guys try find a girl equivalent to porn when clearly the only equivalent to porn, is porn. It's true that a vibrator is more equal to lube. So instead of him giving up the porn and her giving up the vibe, it should be him getting rid of the lube in exchange for the vibe. A dildo is equal to a fleshlight, not porn. As well trying to compare a romantic comedy to porn and saying well that's women's porn, well no. Women's porn is porn. The male equivalent of a romantic comedy is an action movie. Us swooning over the men in romantic comedies is about equal to men drooling over Megan Fox in a catsuit. Women are very visual creatures too and when it's actually made for women (no money shots, gagging, or crying) we generally enjoy it a lot. Not to mention women enjoy orgasms just as much as men. So to say we get the same pleasure out of say, shoe shopping as masturbating to porn is insulting.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 June 2010): im not at all sure why this vibrator / porn comparison keeps coming up,
as far as i can see it , using a vibrator to masterbate when your boyfriends not there is equvilant of using lube to wank when your girlfriends not there.
using to porn to wank when your girlfriend is not there is the same as using porn to frig when your boyfriends not there.
men can reach there sensitive parts easily enough but lots need a bit of extra moisture.
women are lubd well enough but cant reach their parts easily and need an extended finger.
porn is a separate issue of another person entertaining YOUR partner to climax. not the same at all.
ive given it some thought . and ive came to the conclusion that if on the off chance my man WAS masterbating instead of asking me and he DID happen to fantasise about someone else, it wouldnt affect me the same as porn.
you cant really see it , smell it or touch it . a fantasy is just a fantasy in your head and its not real, poof its gone and nine times out of ten it will be the fantasy not the girl, porn is real.
id be upset if he did , but not like hes just had some other woman entertain him.
thankfully like the op says too . my boyfriend and i have the same views on the subject . in fact he would react harder if i used another man to get off than i would.
but thats the key . finding yur match . and thats where the honesty at the start comes into play .
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (12 June 2010):
Not saying you guys aren't educated, but I need to inform you of one thing. A vibrator is not the same as a dildo. Why should a woman use a vibrator when a guy is offering his penis? Well because his penis doesn't vibrate, doesn't focus on the clit, and doesn't give an orgasm!!!
Sheez, dudes. Educate yourselves. A dildo is the big thing that looks like a cock (or often so) and goes in the vagina. A vibrator is often a small thing, shaped like nothing, about the size of your finger (although sometimes larger for better grip), doesn't go in the vagina but focuses solely on the clit, and can be use together with a mans penis if so need be.
A penis does not replace a vibrator. A penis replaces a dildo.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionCeliaaletta- Some women simply cannot get off using their hands. If it weren't for a vibe they literally would not be able to get off at all. For some it's about adding to the experience, and I completely agree that if a woman is asking her man to give up porn while she masturbates with a giant dildo that's hypocritical. However, if she can't get off without the vibe and she's using one that doesn't resemble a penis at all, like a bullet one, because she can't orgasm otherwise, then that's different. Denying a man his porn wouldn't be denying him an orgasm whereas giving up the vibe would be not allowing her an orgasm. Random thing, I've heard recently that in order to keep up with addicts some women simply aren't bothering to finish at all because the only way they can get their man to have sex with them, to compete with porn, is to basically offer their vagina for the man to masturbate with.
Anon-It's nice when that happens and I wish it happened more. I think it used to, but both men and women have changed a lot in the past few decades. Some changes good, others not. Good ones, it's illegal to rape your wife. It's expected that the woman enjoys sex too. It's becoming more acceptable for women to express their sexuality and not be called sluts. Luckily my boyfriend and I have the same views on these topics (the porn and masturbation issues).
Thanks for the discussion guys, I'm enjoying seeing the different points of view.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): a point is being missed here, why cant a man masterbate to his girl. why does it have to be porn or other women in his head that he works with or whatever?
i have a whole book of pics my boyfriend can look at of me, plus if i ever was too sore for sex id gladly get naked or put on a thong and let my boyfriend do thier thing.
but you know what , he never uses either because hed rather be with me doing it or not do it at all.
(i know that dosent account for those people whos partners wont have sex when they want it or often, but in relationships where the sex is regular then why not?)
if you are going to fantasise then why not put your partner in the image?
personnally i get off way quicker thinking about my guy, any other person wouldnt do it for me the same way. seeing him turned on or thinking about him turned on is the best and whatever fantasy i get its always him in it.
quote " to cheat in your mind you have already cheated in your heart"
its clear that so many people are putting the quick thrill of an orgasm over so much more important things. the reality is that there are more important things in life than sex and taking control of your own actions for the love and respect of your partner is not alot to ask.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (11 June 2010):
Aside from the main point, I want to jump in at the male anon who wanted opinions about women giving up vibrators if men gave up porn. I hardly see how they are the same. Women can give up porn if man gives up porn. Women can give up the vibrator if a guy gives up his hands... Because, yes, basically we can't get off without a little help. So say, you're not allowed to use your hands on your penis, or any other toy for that matter, would there be a point to masturbation? Not really, which is how a lot of women feel. We can't get off just using our hands like you guys, so that is hardly a fair comparison. Masturbation is fine and alright, and there are toys for men too in case you just didn't know.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): "There's a huge difference between using your imagination and watching porn."
So by that logic watching porn is ok provided your partner doesn't know?
My imagination is worse than porn...
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not saying it needs to be mentally monogamous. There's a huge difference between using your imagination and watching porn. It's just like when people say that trying to get him to stop watching porn is like getting him to stop masturbating. They're not the same thing. Back to the happiness thing, isn't masturbation without porn still fun? So it's not like asking a man to give up porn is totally destroying his indulgence or fun or pleasure. Sure without porn it's a little less fun, but masturbation is still plenty fun. Plus if he stops watching porn he might start having more sex (because his woman will want to more), so that's just an added perk.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not judging a man's feelings as unimportant, but it's kind of like saying to someone I like the noises you make when I poke you with this stick, so even though I know it hurts I'm going to keep doing it because it makes me happy.
"Again, a man cannot win... his desires, his happiness is seen as unimportant and can easily be discarded, again, a woman's happiness seems to be all that matters..."
How is this a "men can't win situation?" I don't see how it makes a man suffer to only have sex with one woman or masturbate to images in his head when masturbating to real women (yes, they're alive somewhere) hurts a woman he loves. Men don't need porn to masturbate. Men have been masturbating since long before porn came along. It's not like the women are asking you to stop masturbating. It's really inconsiderate to continue to do something that really hurts the woman you care about. You really think that giving up porn would hurt men the way women who are hurt by porn are hurt? You really think they are even on the same level? No way unless you are an addict.
"Should the woman not also allow the man to indulge in something that gives him great pleasure and happiness?"
I don't like the word "allow" because no one has the right to outright forbid anything in anyone. But why is his supposed right to masturbate to porn worth destroying a woman's self-esteem and happiness over? Why can't he just masturbate without porn if it really is a sex-drive issue? In the relationship she should be allowed a certain level of happiness too (it's not all about him) and watching porn doesn't allow that, especially sexually for the woman. Many women describe feeling too disgusted to continue sexually with their boyfriend or husband. I doubt giving up porn would make him miserable, but living with it can make the woman feel that way.
I never thought I would get so involved in this especially as I've never given it a second thought in a relationship, but it actually feels painful to read women being treated so badly and told to just, get over it because she's insecure and controlling even when that's not always the case. Often the insecurity and controlling comes after the discovery and lying.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): "My point is that it hurts the woman and makes her far more unhappy than porn makes him happy"
Isn't this a little unfair... again you judge his feelings as unimportant and put her feelings first.. how do you know how he feels, your not a man.
Again, a man cannot win... his desires, his happiness is seen as unimportant and can easily be discarded, again, a woman's happiness seems to be all that matters...
Maybe this is why men are reluctant to settle down and get married, and so many of them refuse to get into a proper commited relationship... what does he gain by living with a woman except putting away the things that please him, and putting his happiness last...
Much better for a man to remain single if he thinks about it logically...
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question"His orgasm makes him happy so the sentance becomes
'My happiness is more important than your happiness'"
Sorry, but that's the exact opposite point of my article. My point is that it hurts the woman and makes her far more unhappy than porn makes him happy. If that's not the case and porn does make him THAT happy that it's worth making a woman he cares about suffer tremendously, than he should probably not be dating or he should date another avid porn user. It's just very sad that porn has become escalated to the point of being so essential to men that it's more important than his girlfriend or wife's feelings. And yes, your point could be reversed to the man saying exactly the same thing, that his happiness is more important than hers. And since it would make her happier if he stopped than it would make him happy to continue using, why then is it only her who has to suffer? If porn's no big deal and harmless, than it should be no big deal to give it up. Sure it's fun, but feeling hopeless, unloved, and insecure is not worth a little fun. If a man truly cared he should be able to give it up. It's less of a sacrifice than making her live with it in my view.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 June 2010): just a thought, if its a womans responsibility to be upfront from the start if she regards porn as harmful or cheating in a relationship, then it might be worth a man considering being upfront from the start if he uses porn and intends to carry on using porn throughout the relationship. what works one can should also work the other.
its the lying that really is the issue. if everyone is up front from the start then everyone knows where they stand. if a man rates still using porn while in a relationship to the point where he wont quit for anyone and a girl see's it as cheating and knows she will be hurt by it, then they know before its too late that its not going to work and they can move onto find someone more appropriate to them. when there is honesty then everyone has the information they need to make the right choices for themselves. to withold this information (or lie), for example pretending to be open to porn to lure a man or not mentioning porn to someone who you know is going to be hurt by it, you are not being fair. espcially during the time where you know someone could be falling in love with you, and they would probably leave if they knew the truth but find it hard to leave by the time they have been with you months and fell in love. thats manipulative.
a removed example would be if you date someone and on the dates you dont smoke, that person clearly assumes over time that you are a non smoker. that person might even say things like "ew i wish they would smoke somewhere else" when seeing others smoke and dosent smoke themselves. you will have a fair idea that they probably are against it . BUT for this reason you keep on only smoking when they are not around and not mentioning it. maybe even agreeing with them that smoking is bad , or saying "well dont worry you wont catch me smoking"
this other person may have big reasons for wanting to date and fall in love with a non smoker for instance they may have asthma or be thinking about the health of any future babys or having to care for someone with lung cancer , all the possible pain they might experience from it.
but you carry on doing it behind their back leading them to believe that you never would.
this example runs hand in hand at every point with porn use so you can see how unacceptable the deceit is.
lying is never the answer.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 June 2010): i just realised that i never posted back wat happened after i read this post to my man. I think more then anything it made him realise that im not the only girl who gets upset over the use of porn when in a relationship. I never actually was upset that he uses it, but that he was willing to lie to the point of huge arguements about it. We have since been able to reach a compromise that i think we are both fairly happy with. Ive realised that it'll take some time for me to be able to trust him again in this area, and since our compromise is built on trust its a bit harder for me then him (as he doesnt have to give anything up, just stick to less then a certain amount and want me more, and not lie to me) I know my biggest issue wasn't that there was porn, its that it caused lies. And when i first saw it i didnt get upset, hence there was no need for lies. But due to his ex's reactions he assumed lying was the safer option when in fact thats wat caused the issues. For me, lying is a bigger problem then whether he uses videos to get off. At the end of the day he is with me, and he'd rather be with me then his hand and videos. The problem for some women (like me) is not that there is porn. Its that our guys will lie and fight about it because they think we'll have a huge issue and tell them to give it up. Or leave them. Or whatever the guy thinks. To me porn isn't worth losing a good relationship over. And thats why i wanted the whole lying over porn issue gone, so our relationship could continue and we could be happy. Perhaps if guys were more willing to be honest and make compromises so their girls could be ok with it, relationships wouldn't need to end over it. When a guy isn't willing to show his partner that they are more important then porn, then why is that guy even in a relationship? If he wants to argue that its his right and refuse to change anything at all then perhaps the best partner for him is his hand. As no woman deserves to feel that porn is somehow better or more important then her. Thanks again for a well written article.
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 June 2010): thats a very good point . i think that in this day and age alot of men may just assume nothing of continuing with porn use. so it is for the woman to say straight up from day one her standards on it . and then it is also for the man not to lie and either admit he cant do it or respect her wishes. communication is the key here .on account of the ammount of men who lie and have admitted lying to continue use of porn . it may be wiser to not mention a preference as to whether you accept it or not until a few dates in when you can establish the mans character.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (9 June 2010):
Actually perhaps women who feel that looking at pornography is cheating, should make this very clear on the first date and then do exactly what they would do if the man was caught sleeping with another woman..
(Some) women feel it's cheating, but then they stay with the man even though he keeps looking.. That's like staying with a man who is having sex with the whole world.
What would you do if your partner had an affair, well then do the same thing if you find him with pornography.
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 June 2010): your arguement is a very good one although i feel a little backing off on your point towards the end to keep the people who argue for porn on this site from lunging into a full on attack. thats the problem with this site , when it comes to porn the people who are for it flare up to intimidate all those who meekly come here to say they are hurting over it, till they feel like something is wrong with them.
i felt your arguement went so strongly when you pointed out that women see porn as cheating and that even if it is harmless to the man it is extremely harmful to the girl to the point where she feels sick. your quite right and of course there is nothing wrong with you if you feel sick knowing your man is having sexual encounters with other women on any level , including porn.
so if it does hurt and we do see it as cheating and it does make us sick (some of us) (most of us) it is such a chame that so many men put that porn before thier partners well being , and that is where your post gets an A* from me.
as for it popping up on tv or being handed a mag or popping up on the net. how about you hand the mag straight back and declare no thanks i have a girl at home already ? how about looking away towards your girl and getting hot for her or turning over if porn comes on the tv ? how about getting a pop up blocker on the net ? theres no need to say you have to get off to it just because its thrust in your face.
i think its about time men got over themselves and stopped hurting the women they love to the point of sickness and grief just for a quick thrill. most women would give their man sex anytime of the day if he promised it meant that he would stop doing something she saw as cheating or a promise he wont lie to her again. but then you hear the "i dont want to bother her " excuse again...always excuses excuses , and none of those excuses involve a man opening his eyes to what his "meaningless act" is doing to the woman he loves.
if we can expect give up sex with other partners to stay with one person in a relationship then maybe its time we started expecting that maybe we are going to have to give up visual sex with other "people" too.
thanks for a well put together post and i hope that people will accept it for what it is , and that is that its helpful to those who like it or need it ( like the woman whos boyfriend is having a think now) and not a place to attack other peoples ideals.
but on a more positive note id like to say not all men are lost causes and alot of men do actually put thier girls before porn and thats a starting point.
respect!
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 June 2010): Good reading and some interesting points and research :)
A little one sided, but at the end of the day, you are right in many ways. It also makes me sad to hear about the porn issue over and over again, but unfortunately I can't see this problem going anywhere soon... It really is hard to see what the big deal is as a guy, especially since its something we've done since as soon as we realized we could.
Question.. If a guy gives up porn for his partner, would it be fair call if the guy asked the girl to give up her vibrator as a compromise? Not trying to be a jerk, just interested in opinions... :)
56% of divorces caused by porn?? That's astounding if it's true!
Anyways, thanks for the insight :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (9 June 2010): "My point is that in choosing to continue to watch porn simply because it's fun and pleasurable, you're saying my orgasm is more important than your happiness"
And this is the sticking point...
His orgasm makes him happy so the sentance becomes
"My happiness is more important than your happiness"
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI see your point. This is a difficult topic because women and men don't see the issue the same way. Men tend to see it as just a harmless way to masturbate, while many women view it as cheating, and really in a way it is, but an amount of cheating has to be allowed in every relationship. It's just what amount. It's very true that much of what's on TV now is softcore porn, so where do we draw the line? Part of my point is that women are forced to give up more in the pornography argument than the men are. For your argument that the giving up the porn won't really solve anything because they will always worry about something, well maybe that's true. But worrying about him ogling the actress on TV is not the same thing. It's not even the same thing for a man to be fantasizing about the actress. A lot of men feel like, "well why should I have to give up something natural that I like?" Well first off, porn isn't natural. Liking porn is preying on the natural instinct of men from when seeing two people having sex meant an opportunity for the man to get in there when the woman was still aroused. If he was already aroused he could just pounce in there when the other man was done and since she was already "seduced" and ready, he could be in there quickly. Porn isn't natural, and when men say they NEED it, well men need a visual stimulant about as much as women NEED a visual stimulant. Porn physically arouses women just as much, just as plenty of men are physically aroused by romance novels (it's just talking dirty isn't it?). Porn just makes it a bit better than being without porn. Really, it does, I know it does. It's not that we're trying to condemn masturbating here, and if a higher sex drive is really all you're trying to control than you should by all means be allowed to masturbate. But when it comes to porn, asking a man to give up porn is no different than asking him to stop having sex with other women. And when he says, but it makes me happy, well great, but it hurts her a lot. So is porn so great that it's worth really hurting a woman over? My point is that in choosing to continue to watch porn simply because it's fun and pleasurable, you're saying my orgasm is more important than your happiness.
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reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): 87% of men watch pornography you quote...
But somehow they should all stop, because women don't like it..
It's not a fair compromise..
A woman feels sick about a man's hobby, but it becomes his responsibility to give up something he likes to make her happy...
Two people in a relationship, one person has to give something up.. why can't the woman give up her insecurities...
Because it makes her sick...mmmmm.. that's sounds psychological to me.. to be sick over something someone else does...
Sorry, but I believe in compromise, and one person sacrificing to make another happy is not compromise, because only one person wins..
Much prefer, don't tell you female partner, don't let her see... then men (87% of them) remain happy, and the woman who doesn't know remains happy as well..
Many women who complain about pornography, will, if the pornography disappears, find themselves complaining about something else. We've had women on here jealous at the TV, the latest Movie star, the woman next door... Discarding pornography use will not guarantee the woman will believe a man loves her and only her... she'll still be on guard and wondering if he fancies another woman she can never be..
Even when a man gives up pornography, he only has to make a mistake and look at it once, because it's on the tv, or someone gives him a free magazine, or it pops up accidently on the internet, and the woman believes he's been lying and starts crying again... A woman who is strongly anti-pornography should not be with a man who has any interest in it.
Sorry, just my take on it.. you have argued your case very well... but as I said, what's a fair solution where everyone ends up happy. If a man sacrifices looking at pornography, what is it fair to ask a woman to give up, what should a woman have to sacrifice? Equal relationships built on communication and compromise are always best.
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female
reader, real life answers +, writes (4 June 2010):
i hate my bf going onto porn but when i think about it i would much rather him go onto a porn sight where he could not touch anything.. than go out and do the real life act himself
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reader, chigirl +, writes (4 June 2010):
Great article, it was a good read. Well argumented.
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female
reader, nothing.lasts.and.nothing's.lost +, writes (29 May 2010):
 To Mr Anonymous reader, what on earth are you rambling on about? You've just told the poster of this question to "stop this insecure shrillness about porn" After telling us your wife doesn't give you sex very often. Sorry that you're having trouble with your lack of sex life but maybe you should get help for that instead of taking out your anger on others. The question posted here was clearly about men who won't give up porn when their partners find it very upseting and it's effecting their relationship. The question was not at all about men who don't get enough sex so have to look at porn once in a while to wank! If you're not getting much action then fair enough look at porn, but all this lady was trying to say, was that to men out there that won't stop looking at porn when their partner is having sex with them on a regular basis, then that's a big problem and a factor in relationships failing. So I suggest you talk to your wife if your sex life's bothering you...
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 May 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThis article is not condemning porn at all. Porn can be a good thing. I don't think people who look at porn are "gross" or "perverted" or that porn is morally wrong. This article is only about the men (and some women) who continue to use porn despite their partner begging them not to and despite their partner being willing to meet their needs. That is clearly not your situation. I'm sorry that you are having problems with your wife and hope you can find a solution.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 May 2010): My wife is willing to have sex maybe once a month if she's really hot. Once in two months otherwise. Guess what -- in between times, I'm going to wank. And since it's been three decades since I've had a new partner, I'm just a little bit short on mental images that are going to get me there. You're gonna condemn me for looking at porn? Tell you what -- you convince my wife to meet my needs, I'll drop the porn. Happily. I'd rather have her. Until then, stop this insecure shrillness about porn.
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female
reader, nothing.lasts.and.nothing's.lost +, writes (27 May 2010):
I don't think anyone could of said that and worded that as well as you have, you truely hit on everything I could think od related to the issues of porn. I used to be a wreck when I was with my ex, who looked at stuff all the time, I told him I'd leave him if I ever found anything again, it only took one week and I found more of it. And he deniyed being an addict! That was the point I told him if he wasn't an addict, then he simply didn't care about me at all because in my eyes he'd chose porn over me. I tried to work things out, stayed with him, but I was very turned off by him, he couldn't arouse me, when it came to sex, I wasn't interested at all and it just wasn't working anymore so I had to finish it. It's very sad how many men are infact addicted to porn, but convince themdelves they're not. I think anyone who's damaged by their partner's use of porn, should show this question posted because it's spot on!
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionIf I was able to help even one relationship, this article is a success. Keep me posted on what happens!
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reader, anonymous, writes (22 May 2010): wow this is a great post. I wish my man would be willing to compromise, or even just talk about it to ease my fears. Have read this to him. He is currently in 'thoughtful mood' so i hope it has helped him understand wat i have been tryin to say for so long. Thank you
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