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age
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anonymous
writes: Hi people,My husband had an affair last year. We have made enourmous progress in trying to get back on track, but it is tough. Through the recovery process, our sex life obviously has come into discussion and debate. Our sex life prior to his affair had been in a way average but okay - I thought. On reflection I can perhaps see that it may not have been as frequent as others, HOWEVER, we, me in particular had enourmouse stress, got MS and not gone into remission, was running a company which turned into chaos through this process and was on antidepressants. My point being was that there were in my opinion, looking back many very acceptable 'excuses' if you wish to call it that for perhaps an average sex life and we BOTH seemed just so tired and on the same page. We still made love and also where verbally and physically affectionate.So our sex life may have only been around once a week during about a year up to his affair. It seem now that he was suffering a mid-life crisis, of which his sexual desires increased. He understands all that he has done, but if he was sexually frustrated prior, got caught outright, everything now is in recovery faze, BUT the sex life now is horrific. It has completely screwed with my head. Logically I understand, that it was different with her, BUT if his logic to stray was based on lack of enough sex with me, then what now - how much will he take now?Our sex life is completely stuffed up now. We have only had sex, and it is sex not making love, 3 times over 9 months. One occasion I threw up afterwards, another I then slept afterwards on the couch, and the third I had to shower afterwards for about 1 hour!. It has really screwed me up and I don't know what to do. He is being very understanding and patient, But when I want to talk about it feeling that this should be a huge part of our recovery, he is uncomfortable. All he says is that he knows it is hard for me and hopes one day I will jump him. He on the one had tells me, having sex with her was not special and with no feeling, but when I ask him why he wants sex as apposed to masturbation, he say it's not the same as he wants the feeling of skin touch and being close.So why am I to accept that he didn't feel that with her! I just don't get it I really don't. How can you have sex with someone, you apparently, don't fancy, didn't want a relationship with, but you can kiss them, fuck them and get as closeas physically possible to someone, and then say it was nothing and really just a mistake. Then want you to do exactly the same things with you and except me to consider it special! I don't want my marriage to end, but I don't know how to fix it, and he seems to need me to let him know what he has to do. But if I can't get him to talk about it, I just get bitter and twisted. What can I say to him to help me with the sexual frustration that we are now both suffering, without me feeling like a piece of meat that wasn't enough to keep him in the first place. The crazy thing now is that it was him and her, friend, that were the filthy scumbags, but it is me now that is feeling like a tart when it comes to having sex. I think it's about the love that has gone.....
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reader, anonymous, writes (4 February 2008): Laura
Please read Irish 49, you need to get a grip on true values of life, some of us do have a different concept of what life means to us. I married a man who I thought was like me I have been married for 18 years, every year I have had men flirt with me....and I have never gave them a second look or chance...come on now ..you love someone,you marry with the knowledge that you have married a person who will always be there for you, hell, this is someone you have your children with, what happens Laura when a woman sacrifices everything, like let a man join a band, he can't work so you find a good job and pay the bills, in my years of marriage I have never seen many places, he has though, I have been what a lot of people call the weekend widow...alone with my children, while my husband has played out of town, out of country, and worked my ass off for my home....so I can afford all the good things that he has.....For what, for an affair that he found on the internet, a mother of three, crack addict, what happens to what I have dreamed of, your wrong it is the most Devastating thing anyone who has the same values as I did could go through, I feel like I am losing my mind, everyone talks of lack of sex, we had sex everyday, how can I feel that this man of mine is a good man, a man of value, when there was no consciese there, a therapist everyone here says a therapist, well let me tell you what my psychiatrist said about my husband, he said" that my husband is an evil man, a man with no heart, he did what he did and did not care about me, or his children, this was not something he did in an office and in the heat of the moment have sex, he talked on computer, left home, drove to a store, bought condoms, met this stranger, and knew he was going to break his vows.......think about a man or woman who goes out of thier way to do this,,,,,,this is pure evilness,,,,,,now don't say that we should not be the way we are,,,If I drive him away,,,Oh well, I don't feel the same for him like I did one year ago, he no longer has me in love with him anymore he has to start all over again, to make me love him,,,,,,My values are deep and so are alot of women on here alot of people take cheating SERIOUSLY! That's whats wrong with this world everyone gets a little slap on the wrist, and told not to do it again, that is not the way I was taught my morals are to deep,,,,,,,,,It is a good thing to be my friend I would never SCREW SOMEONE OVER ESPECIALLY SOMEONE WHO LOVES ME.......This woman is like me who posted this, I feel I am reading something that I wrote.......
God Bless her and help her heal,,,,,because only God knows what the pain is that we are dealing with.....We feel ripped off!
A
reader, anonymous, writes (30 January 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks all. RCN what you have suggested is a positive move.We need to reconnect physically. Otherwise we will end up as flatmates.Unfortunately I do not beleive at this time that we have discussed the reasons for him needing others affections. This probably is my point, that I understand enough about this to realise that he was perhaps feeling low and it was not an act against me but something he was searching for or needing. I have asked him what that was. Apparently it never existed and he just wanted too. Probably that is where it is not a good enough excuse for me, to betray someone like he did. Many his reason is that heaps of people do it!! He said he just didn't think he would get caught, an I would be none the wiser.There has been no sentence for him, his life is the same now, with the exception of accountability now on for furture issues. I still am unsure about how to reconnect with the physical and for me to feel okay about it!?!I suppose I just hope that the fact that I know what he, - at times, - may be capable of, all I can do is keep my eyes open and purse strings closed. It is a leap of faith so to speak. I just didn't want it to be a leap of BLIND faith!. Thanks for your suggestions.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318  +, writes (30 January 2008):
 How long will you grief? Will you grief till the last day and the last breath of your life? What is the point?
Do you want him to be in penitence though out his life or until your pleasure to decide to give him a final reprieve
? You are not satisfied with his repentance and demand he pay with a foot or hand or chop his head down.
You are not rebuilding your life but you are destroying your marriage. One day he will had enough of your attitude and leave.You are keeping him only for your punishment of him at your leisure.
Your mouth said you forgive but in your heart it is the death sentence for him.
There are two roads you can choose.
You can either forgive and go on and live your own separate life
or
You can forgive him , stay in your marriage and wipe his slate clean and start all over again.
I know theory is easy but that is the tough choice you will have to face.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2008): I have been married for 18 years, my husband also decided to take the road that your husband took, to destroy a marriage with unconditional love. My standards are like yours, I am trying to forget I think I have forgiven but morally somehow I don't think it's happening as fast as my husband wants it too. Oh yeh, he is by my side now, calling me, texting me, oh and why shouldn't he I mean he had all sorts of time to text the skank instead of texting his own wife. If men took time to figure out why they are a little unhappy and communicate with thier wives,instead of using the "poor me, my wife and I dont get along" syndrome then I think a lot of marriages could be saved. Instead, these fools who I think it has a lot with thier upbringing then anything else. I am a deep person I too beleived I had a true marriage, that my husband was my true love my hero. I can't tell you how devastated I am still after one year still after the affair. I am not the same person, I will never be that person again..I have thought of suicide...but my children keep me here...sad..I thought kill myself for what a man whose morals will probably bury me and then the next day go looking for someone to have sex in memory of me....I won't tell him this because he gets angry so it seems...hey I wouldn't of said this about my man 2 years ago...
Let's face it you and me and millions of other women, we marry someone we thought were in love with us like we loved them. And we were determined to have this great marriage of Love, Honour, and Respect but we missed the boat..We clearly have to forgive, because somehow we were dealt with this card.
As for our husbands, I truly feel sorry for them, because they never had the love from these skanks that they sacrificed their marriage for and will never have our respect and full hearts back again.
It doesn't say if you have children, in my case my 17 yr old son knew what the father was up to and so did my 12 yr old daughter I was the last one to know, my son kept leaving hints for me....
Imagine what this man these children thought was a Great Man how they feel now..They don't talk to him anymore, the girl she just shrugs away when the father puts his arm around her. Imagine the has done to this little girl when she gets into a relationship, she will not trust again..
I was so afraid of a man physically abusing me like my dad did to my mom. I truly thought I married Mr. Wonderful boy did I miss the train..
Now, he is there 24/7 always calling me, texting me. Bringing my favourite flowers home, Oh how I would of felt if this was before the affair..I truly would of thought I was on top of the World....
Im sorry but we will never get over this,,,,This was the death of a marriage...We are now in the Grieving process and may never get over like some people think we should, WE HAD MORE EXPECTATIONS I know exactly how you feel
TAKE CARE....XOXOXOXOXOOXOXXOOXOXO
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A
male
reader, rcn  +, writes (29 January 2008):
 First of all cheating is an act. Unfortunately it's an act that affects other people and causes harm. It sounds as if he's appologized over and over again for his actions. From your end, that just isn't good enough. Why? You're in pain, and as long as your in pain he needs to continue feeling the after affects of his actions.
The act of cheating many times isn't an act directed at hurting the person they are with. They have something missing in either the "relationship" as a whole or their own sense of self. Quite often people cheat to fulfill their own feeling of being inadequate. All though it's a wrong way to deal with issues, having someone else show their affection fills that void.
Remember when doing this, many times a male would have "meaningless" less with someone, then come home to their wife who they really love. Often women associate sex as an attachment to love or intimacy.
You asked what did you do that was wrong. At this point I'd have to say nothing. There were issues going on, but if their not brought to the table, how are we to know how someone else is really feeling?
Now all though he appologized, and you're angry. I mentioned you're doing this the wrong way because instead of healing the relationship and the hurt and getting close to your husband again, you have this anger fueling inside you not for the benefit of bringing your relationship together, but for personal satisfaction. He filled his void the wrong way by cheating, and you're doing the same things, just in a different way, but both are destructive.
I big problem today is too often we're married to everything but the person we married. Jobs are stressful, mortgage, bills, creditors for some, etc. We start letting life take over instead of taking control of our lives. I worked with a couple not long ago, it was amazing, scheduling 2 hours on the weekend just for them, getting a babysitter, unplugging phones etc, and just focusing on their marriage was the difference between divorce and staying married. They wrote me not long ago and said they can't remember when they were this happy. Many times it's a slight change that makes a huge difference.
Here's what I want you to do. First your going to forgive him by telling him everything that you feel about what you think his behavior has done to your marriage. He just has the job of listening. These are your feelings, there's no need for them to be questioned. Then I want you to plan a romantic date for you and your husband. You're going to do this to end the battle you're facing. As long as we think about ourselves and what we need, it's like a never ending circle. It doesn't have to cost a lot, a meal at the park, followed by a walk. Doesn't cost much, but can begin bringing your emotions as a couple back together. Just like in battle, it ends by one person being strong enough to hold up the white flag.
You should also consider having a date night. You plan it one week then he does the next. It's the job of the other person to show up and take part in whatever activity the other person has planned. In a marriage, with everything else that goes on around us, it's important to plan time to focus on strengthening the marriage. Just hanging out and watching tv at night is not enough. That's pysical presense time, not bonding time. I think if you do this, you'll begin seeing a huge change in your marriage, the intimacy will begin returning, but will grow stronger than you'd probably ever had it with him.
Take care.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (29 January 2008):
Life is just simple. In my world, you only need total forgiveness , just as we asked for forgiveness from God for our wrongs.If we do not forgive others, how can God forgive our sins?Do we have no sins?Are you perfect and sinless?
No matter what somebody done to me , I will have to forgive him unconditionally. This is what I believe in my religion.
You don't have to seek those costly counseling sessions. Many people are sick in body and mind are because of unforgiveness.It is like a cancer which eats and destroy them.
You can forgive but will not forget but there is no more pain.
I have said what I need to say and I will not go into a discussion with you which I feel is just fruitless. I hope you find your solutions to your problems.
Thanks RCN for your views.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (29 January 2008): Dear Poster:
You do not have to defend your ideals...your thoughts. You have done nothing wrong. This is not about grudges-it's about finding out 'why'. And it was wrong for anyone to make you feel that way and to insinuate you are damaging to your marriage. I would think his infidelity was damaging enough. And he perhaps he should feel fortunate his marriage has survived this. As far as other people getting into this debate on the site with you? You cannot make people understand what you are trying to say, if they themselves do not have the same mindset, values, as yourself. As far as what you are going through with your husband I will state: I believe that he, as a mature, clear thinking, rational adult...did make a delibrate choice in our behaviors and what we do. So therefore...one's actions does describe one's inner self-it is a blueprint of one's character. So this is why you are having a hard time understanding your issue with hubby..because you do have values...you do have a good moral compass. And you are not alone. There are tons of people out there that feel and would think this way. What disturbed me deeply, is how it has been actually implied you should be ashamed of the goodness, your ideals, in you that you possess. Don't ever allow someone tear you down for your values. Be proud you have that and stand tall.
I really feel you are a good, proud woman, who had a husband who did pain her badly. We have many letters that come into this site daily referring to that very thing...the suffering of someone (man/woman) who has been cheated on. And with some of these people...their marriages are irrepairable. You and your husband are working toward some resolve..then so be it. We are not living your life nor are we in the middle of your marriage. You both know each other best. You do what needs to be done. This will take time, patience, love and understanding. You are simply trying to understand why your husband didn't aspire to be more fully human as you would have been. The truth of the matter is...some people just don't know how to deal with their urges, their bad behaviors and what's happened or what they did to some one else, with a conscience. He momentarily forgot his. I wish you luck and I hope you get the answers, you need to hear.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionFirstly, I have no hate in me for him, but I do hate what he did. I also am struggling with what I am supposed to be forgiving other than the obvious.
I care enough about him and our relationship to try to find a way for me to express to him my concerns. Because the subject is not something he is comfortable discussing, granted my problem now, then I am still feeling alone with it.
I am very greatful for any constructive advice and guidance, and different perspectives, thats why I was here. I equally agree that you need to forgive and not necessarily forget. I get that!
If it is as simple as stated tell me how.
What are the steps I am not taking.
What have I done wrong in trying to have a happy marriage.
Are you telling me it is now over in relation to finding out why?
My rudeness if that's how you saw it was directed at Laura's philosypy that because he is a man, they do this sort of thing and it is okay to accommodate these failing as they can't help it - that is what I was saying was the bullshit associated with blindly continuing something which may be broken or in need of discovery.
How did I get that wrong, what would your suggestions be in relation to whether there are other issues. How can I get him to ask those questions to himself.
Do you consider I am going about this the wrong way RCN??
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A
male
reader, rcn +, writes (28 January 2008):
I sure hope you feel better. You can type and go off about your feelings, when you really need to sit him down and reapeat what you told us to him. Forgiving him is not forgetting. He may not even deserve the forgiveness, but you'd be doing it for your own sense of health and well being, so you can move on.
I've seen people who have forgiven others for cheating and are now, without or without them, living happy lives without carying around the pain the other persons acts cause. I also have met people who use to be wonderful pleasant people, but still hold a grudge from years ago and have developed a heart that's consumed by hate.
You know, you can take the information you get off here and use it, or you can ignore it and move on. People on here give advice for free, and don't ask for any payment to do it. It's not appropriate to speak in a rude manner to those who answer your question with the intent of giving you information to help out your situation. Some of these individuals do this for hours of their own time, and never asking for any compensation to do so. As far as the forgiveness comment being bullshit, that bullshit has 20 years of solid research and has been proven in both the medical and psychiactric communities. I don't give information that I just think sounds cool. I've been working with people in relationships for almost twice as long as you've been married. I've also spent the past 2 years in extensive research on the affects of trauma within marriage and relationships, tracing and finding links to why such an intense pain is developed from those who are cheated on. I don't know about others, I find the time to do this and my research with narcolepsy (4 hour span between naps) cataplexy (sezier disorder) and ADHD. I also work, am a single parent, and studying for my certificate to be a christian counselor. With all that, still finding time to give someone who I don't know, have never met, and probably will live this life without meeting advice.
If you keep running the issue through your head over and over again, and keep expanding it to different directions, your marriage will be destroyed. Work on rebuilding, not focusing on the issues that caused it.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI would firstly like to say that I would have no fear or problem being with a man with higher standards than I - not a problem and that's what I thought I married!
Your wrong Laura! To simply say 'hes a man and I am a women is a little too simple for me! Look, this is where things start to become a frustration with this attitutde.
I have been with this man for now nearly 9 years. We have bee married for 7 years. We married each other and he had compromises as did I, not a problem. He and I knew who each of us where, our individual baggage, morallity, values and areas where our "standards" differred. He knew how I felt about this issue, it was not difficult for me to disclose this area of highly unforgivable behavior, of which I had previously become a victim to. It was easy and not hard to comprehend.
We had many lovely chats about how this was not on! As I said it was my standard, my expectation and my committment - one which he gladly agreed to and reassurred me over.
To woffle and say that "Love" will see you though is, to me, rather childish. And I am not one to sit on my hands and hope for the best like a drip 'in love'. We are not teenages in a state of young dizzy love.
I have accepted what he did - it's done. I am not silly enough not to get that, and I had finished many many months ago discussed to grubby details of the sex he had with her and again I have to accept that and have. So to suggest that the issue of forgiveness and moving forward is all that should be done now is bullshit. My point is this;
He made the mistake and broke our vows knowingly. Fine - his choice. He said sorry won't do it again - fine no other option but to accept that. These decisions he made alone and knowlingy in a deceptive and distructive way. I have to now consider - if this is it that this is now perhaps how he had always felt about things and again - who is he. I refuse to accept this change in character as being a man based issue. There was a women involved and she had exactly the same objective as he. They were friends, so how is it that my standards are somehow the hinderance to our recovery or something he should be able to 'detour from, when it suits him'. If the roles where reversed I would be bending over backwards to make sure that not only he now can safely love me again but also that I had explored all of my failings in this regards to identify where I got sidetracked with the basiscs of our relationship. Are you suggesting Laura that this doesn't matter because he is a man???
I have already "Lowered if you call it that" my standards by staying with him and trying to make this work. Why!
Because he majorally stuffed up, we have had many years building our life together. If we had problems, which I was unaware of and if something was not running smoothly or being taken good enough care on in our relationship then perhaps a second chance will fix this and make us stronger. I may be able to work through this to have a happy life, with him if I know what had been a problem.
If I am to sweep this under the carpet now and put it all down to something which 'just happened because he is a man' then I give up. I am not going to justify or apologise for how I consider a marriage and partnership to be. Yes I married him - but he also married me! And I didn't want to share him!
It is totally unacceptable to me to justify bad form based on whether the person happens to be a man, which you are suggesting Laura. Rubbish - I have a many male friends and relatives who have the ability to make good decisions and choices and do the right thing. I will not and don't think anyone should simply make allowances for actions based on them being either male or female! Come on you can't seriously say that because he is a man then this is what they do and you need to get over it!.
In order for the sorry and the mistake to be "good enough for me" if that is what I am seeking now, and enough for me to move forward, I would like perhaps - unreasonably for some, - to see or hear words which show me an understanding that this has not only hurt damaged me but "US". HE NOT ONLY DID THIS TO ME HE DID THIS TO US AND OUR MARRIAGE.
The repair of our marriage is not something which I want to fob off, minimilize or pretend this never happened. This breaks up homes and lives and I want to fight for what I thought I had. Now that it was not quite the same for him, I want to know where we need to work and sort things out. If it is for me to blindly accept his FEW words now - AS I DID PREVIOUSLY - how then, without exploring where it went wrong in the first place for this to be something which has been dealt with and put to rest. Laura HE broke OUR JOINT rules, standards and relationship we had, not me. I consider that it is reasonable for me to want to see some sort of REAL understanding and emotional pain from him on how wrong it was for HIM to even consider this type of action as acceptable. If he thinks that it is really okay as long as you don't get caught then I want out! He should be guttered in himself about what he has done. Are you say Laura that this is me seeking revenge! No, it is me seeking the internal heart of a man I am committed to, but have discovered he was not to me, even if it was only briefly that I was dismissed in his mind. Is is not reasonable that should I wish to continue with my marriage, with an understanding and committment to working out what went wrong. Is it not reasonable that we have all of these problems and issues open and honest and on the table to work through and resolve. The things which destroy relationships, sorted and solved. As time goes on it becomes more difficult to ask about areas which may have caused him to stray. Because he is pretending it didn't happen. Whilst he has acknowledged his accountability and responsibility with this, equally he is not overly interest in discovering why he did it, what motivation he had to say to himself that it was okay and he could live with it. This is the information I would like to know as this is the thought process which will cause further harm if we don't know why it was okay for him. I think to recover from an affair you need to be communicating, which to me would show a committment to our marriage and his love for me to make sure that we never have to visit this pain again.
To discover that after many years of what you considered a pretty amazing, granted, not always smooth relationship, had some serious areas of deceipt and dishonesty, it does throw you completely. You question everything to protect yourself. And I am worth protecting and I am worth the standards I hold and to have respect and honesty and fidelity in my relationship. If this is considered high standards then I have no apologises for this. Pound of flesh is ridiculous. It is me that has taken the physical and mental toll of his actions, I have accepted that this will pass, but I also wish to protect myself from a potential cheating husband who has taken advantage of my faith in him and who had totally unconditional love. I need the reassurance that he is not going to be disloyal and betray me again. I do not feel that is being unreasonable at all.
Through this process I have found out, after 8 years as friends with this couple and the other women, many things which he never told me. This has all opened a can of worms in respect to our individual perspectives on our marriage. I never knew, he knew and pretty much as I see if waited for an appropriate opportunity to take her up on her offer. He was vunerable and exposed to this but I didn't know. It is not about my standards being too high it's about working out how to prevent things to the best of your ability so you don't have to worry and stress.
I have to alter my perception of sex, I realise that. If I don't then I am not 'compromising' on our relationship problems. No I am not happy with this thought as it is not okay with me and I am pissed off that I have been put in this position of being the one who needs to move on her values. Why should I - I should because I want the marriage to last, BUT he needs to be part of that process.
I don't discuss this nearly as much as I would like to. I consider there were many things which may have contributed to as the therapy identifies as - DETOURING! I will willingly embrace any issues he had or has. However if nothing caused his detouring and it was a little side track, then I have in my opinion a major problem on my hands. Equally if there are issues which changed his state of mind then for goodness sake - lets get it out in the open and deal with it.
I would also like to suggest that it concerns me that some consider the desire to have a faithful marriage somehow a high standard and difficult for most to achieve!!!!!" Rubbish.
I did marry him, as he did me. We jointly agreed when we took our vows to agree to love honour and obey - FORSAKING ALL OTHERS. And for goodness sake I get that he buggered that up. My area of frustration is that it has damaged us badly. I need to find a way not to think of him as someone who has a completely different moral compass to me. I need to know that he is now fixed if you call it that. I would also like him to wonder if he is fixed.
If he cannot identify areas which caused him to change his value system to be the opposite to mine and what we had, if he is not really completly bewildered by his own self view, in other words if he doesn't see this as wrong behaviour, but perhaps only wrong because he was caught, then how on earth is me lowering my expectations going to benefit either of us.
Cheating is a gutless selfish and pitiful behaviour, sex is not a sport. It's not clever, productive or constructive when treated flipantly. This is not my high standards or moral values it's a fact. If it wasn't the way I view it then why is this website so active on the subject. If people continue to look at sex as something trivial, a pastime and pointless, which you can share with anyone other than something you care then we all have problems in my opinion and need a wake up call. If it is not really such a big deal and easy to reconcile in your life with your partner - Why are affairs secrets!!!! The entire substance of infedelity is based on deceit and disrespect.
Maybe it is just me but in order to forgive you need to know what your forgiving. And forgiving a betrayal like many have to do, part of that process is working out how much of the person was tied up in the actions which need to be forgiven.
Why can't it be that people say NO thats not on, don't behave like that someone may get hurt. High standard or common decency! This is not about revenge or payback it is about me finding out what is in his heart and mind which I can rely on. The past person I had was able to trick and blindside me!!! I am just wanting something tangible for me to see he gets it, now if he didn't before.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (28 January 2008):
[Quote]Her husband should be apologizing and doing all he can to rebuild the trust. He needs to take responsibility, acknowlege it and give her some closure. She is trying hard to understand how her husband could even do such a thing. What has happened here...this lady has chosen not to simply 'settle' for the painful predicament he put her in.[Unquote]
The thing has been done and in the past. He apologized and did all he could but yet she still thinks it is still short. What more can he do? What's the point of understanding something which happened in the past.You are a woman and he is a man . Can a woman fathomed a man's mind? You would not accept whatever he says anyway.
If you want to save your marriage, you got to move on and let go. If you keep on harping on it , you will only suffer and destroy your marriage.
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male
reader, rcn +, writes (28 January 2008):
You keep saying that he needs to open up and talk about what had happened. Why is that? When someone cheats, usually the other person doesn't want the details of it. You say you're the one who threw up, showered and slept on the couch. The issue then is not the act of his unfaithful behavior, it's how you view it. You're trying to justify why he did it. Why go somewhere else for what's at home. You are doing what's called, and I don't know if the counselors told you this, "Mental masterbation." You're trying to feed or justify why you feel the way you do. If he talks about what happened, then your feelings would be due to the event, and not a separate issue as it is. It may have been the act that caused these feelings, but since the act no longer exists in the present, it's how you view what had happened that are causing all these feelings.
Here's what you need to do. I want you to sit him down, and let him know he doesn't have to discuss anything, and at this point you don't want him too, but you have to get something off your chest. Tell him not to talk or interrupt during this process, then I want you to let him have it. I want you to spill everything about how his affair makes you feel, how discusted you are, how you feel inadequate where he would have to do this. But everything you feel about what he had done needs to come out. Then I want you to give him a big hug and forgive him for it.
After this, you'll be ready to rebuild your life together. This works because it allows you to unleash how you feel, and to get him to see the pain completely from your side. I've seen people do this and afterward all the pain from the act disappears, and doesn't return.
I hope this helps you, take care.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (28 January 2008):
If she cannot accept her husbands infidelity , then it is easy , divorce, there is not much to say anymore.
Why stay in a marriage when you cannot accept him or force yourself to be in what you cannot get from him.
He cannot gives you what you want and you expect him to meet your standards. Is'nt it asking more than a full glass when he is only a half glass full?
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (28 January 2008):
Again, sorry to pick on you Laura, but, you say he is a man, not perfect and not to hold him to my standards. Why not?
First of all, you need to realize that there are vast dissimilarities between a man and a woman . They will not react to the same incident the same way.Woman are more emotional than man.Every man is different and unique.
Your perceptions of what is acceptable and standard behaviour is only your very own perceptions.You may have a very high moral and decent standards which others may not be able to accept.
To hold the view that yours is the only decent and acceptable standard is being too judgmental of others.We are not brought up in the same way and we should not expect others to follow our standards.
If you have love , you will see things differently . When you do not have love , you see every sins and faults of your partner.They becomes magnified.
You want to punish your partner for his miss deeds and you want to give him a life term , 20 years before you want to forgive him.What good would it do? It is best that you quickly deal with it and move on. Forgive and forget .
In a happy marriage, it is all about compromise, compromise and compromise...
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (28 January 2008): Whoa! Laura, your comments just set the progress of modern womanhood back a few centuries. I didn't get that she was criticizing him. She is looking for support and for him to acknowlege the pain 'he' caused. Are you stating that this woman should just lower her standards and simply 'accept' his betrayal, the pain he caused her, his disrespectful behaviors. We have no real idea of what has happened and how these two people interact. She and him likely dated for some time before this marriage-he knew where she sat as far as her 'standards' went and what she'd tolerate. And who knows, he likely led her to believe he was on the 'same page'. We don't know that, do we? He and she married, knowing full well each other's standards. And yet, he made a concious choice to commit an infidelity on her. The measure of this lady's husband as a valuable, loving, devoted husband was just one thing,---that he be a person who did not cause her pain. And what did he do? He caused her unbearable pain. Why should she lower her standards...why can't he uphold himself to the vow of marriage he promised her so many years ago? She has the privilege like the rest of us, to be a unique individual in her own right. And that means including herself and her principles, in the equation of this marriage. .
Her husband cheated on her rather than helping this marriage become workable. She admits to the problems and even shoulders some of the blame. I respect that type of honesty. But he took an outrageous liberty and betrayed her trust..he displayed a total disregard for her. And now he refuses to acknowlege or take responsibility for his actions and the pain she suffered. The 'old sweep it under the rug-get over it' ploy doesn't work for a woman who deserved so much more than this. And she is struggling. One thing I know, is when people sit back and simply tolerate a partner's single minded, self-centeredness, it certainly doesn't bring in the love of others...what it does is promote the hatred of self.
Her husband should be apologizing and doing all he can to rebuild the trust. He needs to take responsibility, acknowlege it and give her some closure. She is trying hard to understand how her husband could even do such a thing. What has happened here...this lady has chosen not to simply 'settle' for the painful predicament he put her in.
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (28 January 2008):
Why shouldn't it be that he needs to meet mine rather than me lowering to his???(Unquote)
In the first place you married him .He comes with a baggage and in marriage , you try to compromise.If you insist that he meets your standard and he cannot or unwilling , it will cause resentment and tear in your marriage.
You need to move on a common ground. Reverse the situation , if you were to marry a higher standard man , how would you feel if he criticized everything you do as inadequate according to his higher standards.
You have not really forgiven him judging from what you wrote. I am sorry if you think you are right and does not think you should climb down from your high horse. He is guilty but you want your pound of flesh.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (27 January 2008): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank you all for you input!. One of the hardest issues for me is that logically I agree with all that has been said, but the putting into practice is a different issue.
We did go to counselling initially. It was helpful, but expensive and whilst I would be the first to say you cannot afford not to go, equally the funds are just no longer available. We both embraced the process with the guidance we had, and I suppose the difficulty is,yes, it woks but we honestly can't afford to go back at this stage, but I am scared of the potential damage we could inflict on our relationship without some guidance. We are both incredibally strong people and to a certain extent it may also be a battle of wills. He just does not want to really go into the deep stuff. I have always beleived you cannot fix things unless you dig deep and get to the bottom of things that are either a problem or potential problem. Maybe it is as simple as the male female thing.
I am no longer in a depressed state as mentioned in the original post regarding the anti depressants. I have been off those for over a year now, whilst I am still not a happy camper, I am alot more stable than most. I had the advantage, if you could call it that, due to the illness diagnosis, to have professional high level therapy to help me adjusting to my new life, learning to let go and trust, feeling the loss of my life at the time etc etc. The principals are exactly the same in dealing with this issue. I had two years of this help prior to all of this issue with the husband. I suppose it was like the icing on the cake and I had nothing left. I in a way, I have a bit of a handicap as in relation to the current situation and needing couselling I was already 5 steps ahead of him. Even the cousellors, we had both a male and female in the sessions, could see that I was already five questions and senarios ahead of anyone else. This is the frustration for me as there is the difficulty of me already knowing and understanding the process. Communication, openess, learning to trust again, expressions of feelings, positive application, looking forward and not to the past, letting things settle and forgiving. On and on it goes and we all know that each of us takes their own path with finding resolution. In a way I supposed I feel robbed of even the newness and benefits of couselling, as I am almost feeling, been there done that, know what they are going to suggest and say. I am killing the positivness and openess of me trying new ways to get this relationship in good health!
The sex thing is, I beleive for me anyway a major. Can anyone advise how a sex thereapist would approach this. I am feeling gaurded or protective of how I felt and feel about what sex and making love, what it should be and is meant to mean. I found is precious and something specail. You only do it with someone you care about.
As sexual expression seems so trivial to some, meaningless and dissmisive, I have a bit of a problem with that. I understand at times and it is an escape of ones life and all of above seem to be the 'attraction' for people who engage in deception and betrayal of someone they are suppose to love. If I am to move through the forgiveness I am feeling that I have to alter and lower my perception and standards of acceptable behaviour. And I do not beleive I should. Not only do the betrayed have to forgive to move on and forward, to do this surely, you need to keep telling yourself, - your standards - (as Laura tells me) are too high and he does not need to meet them. I feel that I need perhaps to forgive myself first for choosing someone who was secretly not holding the same values and standards. Why shouldn't it be that he needs to meet mine rather than me lowering to his??? Laura your suggetion?
Irish hit the nail on the head saying that I feel that I do not know this person who is supposed to be my love, life and happiness. This is the bit that throws you. Terrified that you have made a horrible choice, someone now not worthy of you. And to be honest that also is the difficulty in re-connecting. My battle I suppose is the dissappointment, the way this has made me feel so lonely and foolish, it isn't really about him anymore it is about how to repair ME. Sometimes I wonder if he is part of that process.
We had a major row this weekend, I am so frustrated in not seeing any pain or change in character which I suppose I need to see in him. Yes, he is being pleasant, whoopy! He considers that he is doing fine. He does fine when we don't ever talk about it or bring it up. Am I reasonalbe to want to see him in some sort of reflective pain? He keeps telling me that I am unique in how I feel about all of this, whilst he clearly acknowledges the damage he has done, clearly acknowledges that he was a fool, idiot and wrong, - I don't see any pain?????? Is that what I am waiting for. Shit I don't know. I said yesterday that I am probably not that happy that it is according to him, done and dusted now, moving on and putting behind us. He still can't join all of his emotions, prior to his mistake to look and perhaps see if there are other things which need work. He considers it isolated - isolated now that he was caught. I am needing perhaps to see that this was somehow out of character, yet if that was the case I would see pain? Wouldn't I see something to make me confident that he gets it, really gets it.
He thinks our sex life will resolve itself. He has said his sorry and because we have decided to stay together, he really and honestly, I beleive thinks it has been dealt with and in time it will settle and I will feel okay. The other stupid thing is that I know he loves me. But he may not be good for me!!
I had to laugh actually, thinking if you had a contract for perhaps a house - you need to maintain it, pay all the associated cost to keep it, normally have a mortgage which you are supposed to be responsible for, if you default you loose it, isn't it crazy that we can take better care and have understanding and more acknowledge responsibility over possessions than with the people in our lives whom we say are everything to us!
If anyone can advise on what the sex therapist as apposed to a counsellor may do I would be greatful. I am a great belevier in outside help - he's not. I equally have had enough previous guidance with the principals which have almost hindered me. It feels to me like I have already reached the advanced class and my husband is a beginner. The cost here is incredibly expensive, and limited in the quality of professionals. We attended one session, which unfortunately he had had a number of private sessions and when I met her, I was horrified as honestly she was an idiot. She in a way did more damage to him than good. Another had been enormously helpful and encouraging. Cost was putting extra strain however.
Thankyou. Unfortunately Laura you comments are not really on the money. There is no doubt that I am hurt and in pain. However I am by far means not in a self pity state. What you should realise is that the betrayed party is usually not the person who is self focused. It is the person who you are suppose to forgive and caused the damage who has been self focused. I personally beleive that this website alone and all of the increadible information on the net is indicative of how people who really don't give a stuff about others can cause good people harm and damage, usually without consequence. This is the problem.
To love someone and too feel love, you have to like and respect the person, you need in my opinion to know they have your best interests at heart. I liked and respected my husband before and to think that he had that ability in him without control is scarey and dangerous for me. Equally he did this to his best friend as well, I don't like those traits in a human being let alone a man I am supposed to love. When you give your all to someone and they dismiss you one night, recklessly, as if you didn't exist, and after you had openely and from day one identified that this behaviour is totally unacceptable and unforgiveable, that it was not up for discussion and clearly black and white. But how then does a mistake change your whole moral compass to suddenly being okay in some situations to forgive. Forgiving now means I have to lower and alter my standards and expectations. To be honest I am angry that I have to alter what is acceptable now as past character traits and standards.
Many times here, in discussions and in research, the same situations come up about the damage of adultery. Whilst the guilty party tends to be advised to own the responsibility of their actions, be more transparent etc, they also are always given the constant reminder that you can make mistakes and we all are 'not perfect'. I didn't wxpact my husband to be perpect, I am not. However I do expect more accountability for the damage control. Again, sorry to pick on you Laura, but, you say he is a man, not perfect and not to hold him to my standards. Why not. He knew the standards I had. I also have had no other choice now to seem him from a different perspective! This is exactly my problem and what is of concern to me is that the new perspective that he has shown me - is not very nice!
I think we are all to frequently able to allow people to get away with poor behaviour. I am actually blown away at how much sleezy, adulterous, cheating behaviour and attitutes on how we look after our lives and those we love. Where have all the 'morals and decency gone'. It is everywhere, on advertising, tv programs, within friends and family and we all just pretend it is not our business and each to their own. I will learn from this, maybe thats what it is all about, but shit we actually need to step up and say that stuff is not on, under any circumstances. Until this attitude in turning a blind eye and condoning poor form in others, it will never stop. For every 10 people you get in be appauled you have equal numbers who say go for it, what they don't know won't hurt them. I suppose I have generally been guided by my inner concience and find this hard to understand as I have never ever in my life hurt or betrayed someone, it wasn;t hard to be a good guy!
It is not hard to be a decent human being!! Even if it is a work in progress. Right and wrong, good and bad, black and white - where did it get confusing!!
Thanks all, sex therapy advice would be awesome. Sorry for the rant!
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A
female
reader, Laura1318 +, writes (26 January 2008):
You are hurt and in pain but you need to get out of your self pity.It will not do you any good to hold on to those grudges.You need to release them for your healings.
You need to forgive him totally and bury the past.Time will heal your pains. You won't be able to forget them but you will not feel the pains anymore.
Forgive and do not keep any resentments against him in your heart. Let your love flow again . Where there is hate , have love.Try to see him from another perspective. He is a man and we are not perfect. Do not judge him according to your standards.
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reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2008): Marriage is very meaningful and sacred to a lot of us. It's a promise, a life long vow. I have always believed that infidelity is a concious choice made... without a conscience. So when a man/woman has an affair and claims it was nothing, it's hard for a person of integrity and values, to understand that concept. We will look on a partner's indiscretion as a more selfish animal act than their ability to be more human. It truely can be an act of immediate gratification with no regard for context and no regard nor respect for his marriage partner. It's very plain to see that you indeed, are struggling and that you are woman of principle. When your husband had an affair and had sex with another woman, you suffered a great emotional loss because you believe 'the act of sex' is reserved for the marriage partners. And you are so right. You valued that special act and you are not wrong to have expected him to do the same for you. It hurt. And where has it left you...well, your self-respect, your own self-value as a wife, has taken a huge hit, you are angry and bitter for what he did to you, the woman he should've honored.
The reason you feel like a 'tart' is because your sense of goodness/morality and self-pride has kicked in, bigtime. I also think you know without a doubt, that his actions could've been controlled and you realize that marriage problems can be resolved without one or the other stepping out and committing an act of betrayal. It's almost like you don't know this man anymore, isn't it. It's like he's a complete stranger who lacked the vision, generosity and goodness to do the right thing.
Shandy is correct. The only way you both can get through this is intensive marriage counseling. With special emphasis on telling him what his action took so much away from you, as a person I cannot impress upon you how you both need that. As Aunts we don't have the training to help you make him understand the complex motivating factors for your emotional pain...although many an astute man would completely understand this without communication and counseling. He needs to know that in a marriage, attitude , honor and respect for one's partner, should've made him far 'happier' than momentary thrills and passion did. What a horrible emotional price you are paying. And sadly , he is paying the price too. This marriage has been deeply damaging to the very core. Talk to a marriage counselor today and fget him to go. Some men won't..they put the blinders on. But if he won't go , you need to still go to learn the communication skills to telling him, what this all did to you. Good luck, dear and take care.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2008): You can move on from it but you do need help. I went to see a sex therapist. This is a person who is expert in relationships and intimacy but who understands exactly what the place of sex is in a relationship. They have ways of making you look at things with different perspectives and it has very much released me from some really bad ways of thinking about myself, especially not being good enough etc. This included coping with betrayal by understanding it more clearly.
You may find for instance that it was the drive for intimacy and feeling better and more worthy himself, that spurred your husband to look elsewhere. Looking at all the issues that were around you it must have been very complicated for you to connect at the time of the affair, simpler when low in energy not to confront big issues, to look for a easier way of feeling better? Issues can end up a bit like walls around people and although I am sure he wanted to be with you more than anyone, if he was hungry for love and validation he may not have had the energy to climb over the obstacle course around you but got so desparate for some affection that he went to a more straightforward-seeming solution.
I am sure he did not take such a perilous route lightly and must have been feeling very, very bad about himself. You never know, maybe he was feeling he was failing you because he could not help you with everything you were coping with.
It was not your fault either, you were in a hard place and juggling with very difficult issues.
If you can find a way of looking at both your troubles with kinder eyes you won’t feel so bad about yourself or him. That is what a good therapist will teach you.
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A
female
reader, shandygirl +, writes (25 January 2008):
 Boy... I have a lot of empathy for you!
When you are resentful, feel betrayed, and don't feel in your gut that the person you are with REALLY loves you... it kills your sex life. UNDERSTANDABLE and very normal. I am not trying to be mean... but, sounds as though you need "professional outside help."
Perhaps you should consider going to a Marraige Counselor together. I think it would help the both of you tremendously, and possibly get your relationship back on track. Think about it, and good luck.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (25 January 2008): It's hardly surprising you don't feel the same about sex with him since he betrayed you. The fact is that a lot of men can just have sex without it meaning anything. He has come back to you and made a choice.Either he is putting too much onto you, or you think you have to sort it out alone. You both do need to talk about it. Maybe you could suggest he has counselling or you both go and get some help together. It could be that you need some for your depression, as he could be finding that hard to deal with. Ask him whether that is the case and try not to shout, just listen to what he says and experiences.If a relationship is not working in other ways, the sex is often the first thing to go. It sounds as though there were problems in the relationship before this happened. You need to sort the problems out as the sex is only part of the relationship, not all of it.
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