A
male
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I'm haunted by one night of my wife's life when she had sex with a total stranger. I never did this, and girls that do have never been my type. My wife did not tell me about this until we were just about to get married. Before I was going to ask her to marry me, I wanted to know who she had been with, and I pressed. She told me everything except this one thing, but I knew she was withholding something. I pressed more, and she told me a little but of it. I pressed again, and she told me a bit more - etc. I married her because I thought I would get over it, but I haven't. I obsess about it so frequently that I stop eating, start smoking and drinking, and am clinically depressed. She has had plenty of partners, none of that bothers me - she was friends with all of them; it's just this one thing. She was a relatively clean, safe girl except for this one thing. I don't care how big his cock was. I don't care if she enjoyed it. I just want to be able to look at my wife and not think about her whoring herself out to some guy for cocaine (did I mention that?). When I want to talk to her about it she gets extremely angry with me. I am alone with it, and it's killing me. Any ideas? I'm about to give up.
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (8 June 2010):
 It's not your fault, it's not her fault.. it's not something you want to do.. it's just how your brain works, it's primative, repeatitive and sorry, obsessional...
Have you tried Cognative Therapy Behaviour (CBT).. which helps you rationalise the thoughts and see if they have the importance which you place on them..
Yes, people suffer with this retroactive jealousy for years.. and yes sometimes, leaving is the only way to make the suffering stop.. :(
A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionAnon,
I know you're right. I just don't know if staying with the woman I love is worth the hurting. It's my fault, but it's still there. Thanks.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (8 June 2010): This is how people get trapped into silently suffering from retroactive jealousy for years or decades.
First they talk about the whole thing to try to "deal with it". Everybody does some crying and coping and letting things out in the open. Understanding is reached, things are learned, everyone thinks progress has been made, yada yada yada.
But the problem is the feelings don't ever recede for very long afterwards. Eventually the jealous person comes to the point of realizing that nothing more good can come from talking about it. So they shut up, bottle up the feelings, and move on.
And it never stops hurting.
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (8 June 2010):
I think you need to stop talking to her her about it unless you're with a therapist or counsellor. Because what's happening is you're just going over the same thing with your wife, which in turn is making her angry because whatever she says won't work and you'll come back asking for more. The reason she's ignoring it as such, and not listening to your pain, is that you're talking about the same thing most likely in the same way which is causing her pain and distress. So you need a mediator, as such, to make sure the right questions are asked.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 June 2010):
No... please don't...
I have said my point.. it's long past time I started to listen...
You want her to not ignore the pain that your going through with all these thoughts about what she done in the past? Is that it? For her it's past, but for you it's real and here with you right now?
I'm guessing, help me, then you can go to her and tell her what will help you both.
Stop ignoring you, mmmm... talk to you... about what, the past, your feelings.. please explain what it is that you need.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionMiamine I think that I simply want her to talk to me about it and not ignore me. I get that you think this is the wrong thing to do, that it's not nice on my part. I get that from her too. Maybe I'm just going to stop asking.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 June 2010):
Ok.. new track.. exactly what are you looking for..
You asked your wife for details, she has given you them.. what more do you need to know from her..
You say you want to talk to her, about what.. do you need her to repeat the story again and again.. does this make it less hurting, dose it make it more real..
Why do you need you wife's help, how is she supposed to help you?
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (8 June 2010):
The point you proved was that you were quick to react with anger when you felt hurt. In the same way that your wife has quick to anger every time you mention her past. So in other words, you now know how your wife feels. Which is a good thing. Also, I'll thank you for the extra facts. Assumptions have to be made at the lack of fact. But you've presented us with more facts, so we can move forward a bit here. But a little less of the pointless sarcasm please. It's really not intelligent and just makes everyone less likely to help, which is why everyone's getting mad here. I may have been sharp, but that's to kick this into gear, or no one will get anywhere. But I haven't outwardly insulted you. And I find the idea that I'm just looking for a rating a little low to be honest.
To answer your question, I don't believe anyone can directly affect who you "are", as such. I do believe that it can affect a person's actions though.
In other words, you have OCD. You have always had it, you always will. So your wife can't affect that. But she can affect the actions you take to resolve your issues. Hence, the counselling, hence the talking.
The problem here is that you are talking about forgiving something that was done before you were there. That won't happen. Ever. It can't, because there is nothing she can do that can directly influence your beliefs on this (who you "are"), and there is nothing you can do to change her as such, because she has already changed from that person.
She has already come out and explained to you what happened, and that at the time she hadn't dealt with it. She's done her part. And she did it before you got married. Granted to the anon male she could have done it sooner. But in fairness, I think she did it because she knew this would be the reaction.
Forgive and forget doesn't apply, because there is nothing she has to answer to. I'm not talking about forgiving, because there is nothing to forgive.
Now, to the anger, I think she has every right to get angry, as you have every right to get angry with the answers here because you aren't letting this go, and you're making it worse. It's the same. She has come clean, and using psychologists and such, she has done all she can to make this better. It's now your problem. It's no longer between you and her, and she's getting mad because she no longer knows what she can do to make it better. The truth is there is nothing she can do to make it better. Even you haven't suggested a way that she can make it better. It's now up to you to seek your own help for this. And it comes back down to the same choice again. Either you wind up accepting that she is who she is through therapy, and that her past is her past. Or you'll lose her. Because there are going to be other people out there who will accept her past. You can't find forgiveness, because there is nothing here to forgive. That's the problem. You're searching for a resolution that can't exist.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (8 June 2010):
I don't do ratings.. if I did, I would be nice and sweet and polite..
Space is so limited here, how would I know you have OCD, when you have never mentioned it and I don't know you at all..All I know is what you write, if you don't tell us, then how do you expect us to know.. we only have a couple of lines of your story, the rest we have to guess, assume, based on our limited knowledge of people, human nature and our own experiences...
So you have an excuse, you have OCD.. that makes things different, obviously your obsessions are part of your sickness or your personality. You know yourself best and you know that if she cooperates and helps you with more of the story then you will no longer torture yourself, torture her and dwell in the unhappiness of a past that can NEVER be changed..
Tell you wife this, she must know about your OCD.. tell her if she tells you everything and helps you to understand, with the help of your therapist, you'll be ok and happy with her past one day.
Tell her you need her help to deal with this obsession.. but do not keep blaming or judging her, this is the fastest way to destroy your marriage and drive the woman you love away.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for responding, everyone.
CrassYoungGuy: I'm not sure what point of yours I proved, but well done! Really, good show chap. Let me see if I can prove another one: I ask you one question: From today forward, do you think that you affect, influence, have an effect on who your loved ones *are*? If, after thinking this through, you concede that we do influence each other in some way, I'll ask you another question: is it really OK for my wife to get angry with me when I try to talk to her about something that hurts which I can not share with anyone else? Does she have anything to do with who I am? Do I have anything to do with who she is? Your forgive and forget policy not only ignores the past, but also, in the way I have just outlined, the future.
MiaM:I know my head is sick. But you make several assumptions that aren't the case. If you and CaringKid could stop doing that (granted, I made an assumption about age, shame on me -- that really affects my argument) perhaps you'd be interested in knowing that my wife did not feel that she had ever dealt with what she had done before I asked about it. You might also be interested to know that my excuse for being addicted to my wife's past and future is that I love her, and also that I have OCD. I not only find your 'what the hell if your excuse' offensive and insensitive, but stupid. I have been to psychologists for years; we have even gone as a couple. The improvement we have made has been a result of cooperation, influencing each other, not the forgive and forget policy. I can forgive and forget a lot of things, but not this. This we have to work through, but lately she's just been getting mad, and I have again become discouraged. She told me once that we are fighting with ghosts. I know she's right. But some people believe in them. Some people even believe that they effect the future, determine a person's character, integrity. I'm sorry if I come off as angry, but I honestly feel like you're just reducing the situation to whatever you want to so that you can get your rating and move on to the next question. This isn't all my fault. I'd open that can of worms again if I had the choice; it's not my fault that the truth was so worm infested. I'll take my answers off the air.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): If his wife wanted to spare him then she would not have lied for a long time until he was too emotionally involved to back out. She didn't want to spare him badly enough to let him make up his own mind about marrying her. Perhaps her love was not unconditional enough for that.
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (7 June 2010):
Thank you for proving my point. You've taken my words, and just from those you've decided that I'm not worthy of a top spot, and that I should change my name to CrassOldGuy. Why that? Why old? You presume I'm old? I'm not. So you've just judged me based upon nothing. You've not at all taken into account that I have my name at the top because other people put me there. I didn't put myself there. Your wife is who she is. You can't change it. It is very much a case of either learning to accept it or moving on. I'm not ignoring your pain. I'm making the point that it is built upon something that can't be changed. Her pain is enough. She married you because at that time, she was over her past pain and moving on. You pushed her to tell you what happened. You're the one who re-opened the can of worms here. I get that you're in pain. But your wife did all she could to spare you it. If you want my advice in terms of what to do, you both need to go to serious counselling and get this sorted. If you don't, you'll lose her.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (7 June 2010):
Your head is sick with this obsession, give your wife a break and go and see a doctor.
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (7 June 2010):
"....but you should cede your top aunt spot to someone who isn't so quick to ignore others' pain."
Pot calling kettle black methinks.. what about your wife's pain.. she's the one who did the bad action, who has tried to forget and change.. but she's unfortunate to marry a man who has no understanding, who won't let her forget the degradation she's been through...
Your in pain.. how long have you been married, how long has she had to put up with a man who can't sleep, can't eat, is clinically depressed, smokes and drinks far too much.. She did wrong to herself in the past.. your doing wrong to yourself, her and your marriage RIGHT NOW.. She was addicted to drugs, WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR EXCUSE?
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A
female
reader, Miamine +, writes (7 June 2010):
"My wife did not tell me about this until we were just about to get married."
You knew about this before you got married, but still you decided to marry her.. why, to punish her and make her life hell...
How long have you been married by the way, how long has your wife suffered from your unfair judgements about what she did long before she even knew you existed?
Anyway, look on Dear Cupid for retroactive jealousy... you have 3 choices
1) Accept your wife past and move on and stop making yourself and her unhappy
2) Go see a counsellor (Cognative Behavioural Therapy is the best) who will show you techniques in how to change your obsessional thinking.
3) Leave your wife, find someone who has a different past and leave her to find someone who understands the meaning of "unconditional love".
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionG. Stoker, I have looked - it is similar, not quite the same, but really similar. Thank you.CaringGuy, You betray your name. You paint this as something that is solely my fault. That's reductive. My wife would tell you herself that it isn't. Sure, someone else might be able to say "F it, stranger or friend, what's the difference? Emotional exchange or exchange of body fluids and cocaine, what's the difference?" That someone isn't me. By ignoring my feelings, you not only should change your name to CrassOldGuy, but you should cede your top aunt spot to someone who isn't so quick to ignore others' pain. And just so I'm not being reductive - I do regret feeling bad about it, obsessing about it. I am so ashamed that I can't even talk to my family about it anymore; I am alone. I don't take pleasure in letting it ruin things for me. I'm trying to forget. There is nothing in your words that can help me forget - just the same kneejerk reaction that most people I have talked to have given me. I don't believe it's "forget and love her now," or "stop torturing her and set her free." I think there is a whole lot of movement and conceptual space between and overarching these two ideas. Maybe someone can help me. Maybe not.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2010): No CaringGuy, there is a HUGE difference between her sleeping with a friend and a stranger.
It's a totally different decision. It takes a different person to make it and it brings different risks for future partners. If she kept this a secret then was decieving him about who she was.
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (7 June 2010):
And this is why she didn't tell you. And this is also why you should never have asked. This woman was dreading you acting this way, so she didn't say anything. And now her fears have come true. There's no difference between her sleeping with a friend and a stranger. And she obviously hugely regrets it. This is a woman who has tried to reform herself and leave her past. And now you're dragging it up again. You shouldn't have asked if this was how you were going to react. You fell in love with this woman because of who she is now, not who she was then. If you can't handle that she has a past she's not proud of and is desperately trying to get away from, then set her free so she can find a man who will accept her.
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A
female
reader, Gabrielle Stoker  +, writes (7 June 2010):
 Kama has an almost identical question at http://www.dearcupid.org/question/how-do-anonymous-flings-and-oral-sex-differ.html
You can go thru that thread and see if you get any ideas.
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