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female
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*ained
writes:I have told my husband that I have run up credit cards.Two are in his name and he knows he's liable for them. It is a significant amount. He left to live with his parents, ten days ago, whilst I am left at the business house to deal with it all. I am hopefully taking out an IVA to clear my debts on my cards. He has told me that it's over, as I have messed with his head too many times (I had an affair, 17 years ago, when we got married). He has only just started to talk about this to me and is still hurt by it.I completely understand his anger, but wish that he'd come home, if only to sort out the mess. He has taken financial advice and been to see his solicitor, but not to instigate divorce proceedings.
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reader, anonymous, writes (14 November 2007): Hi, well i dont know if other aunts feel the same but this has now turned into an EPIC!!!!!!!!!! If you have so much to say then i cannot understand how you got into this mess in the first place, surely you could of talked your way out of it!!!! I seriously think you just needed someone to converse with, cos you have certainly done ok here. I do sympathise with you and i think we have given our best advice but enough in my books is enough.
bye bye
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female
reader, pained +, writes (14 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionNo, I'm not an alcoholic. Not sure I'm an addict any more, either. I haven't used a card for two months and have no intention of ever using one again. I gave up smoking sixteen years ago, after falling pregnant and never touched cigarettes again, either!Now, all I have to do, when I've found work, is to wait for my poor husband to come down off the ceiling.I have spoken to him again and he is better than he was, but obviously still well fed up with it all, understandably. I've also written it all down, in a letter for him and he's promised to read it.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 November 2007): sorry am I missing something or are do you have a drink/drug addiction aswell?
I am glad you have spoken to your hubby and his family, you clearly regret your actions, but your not hiding anything now and accept this is your mess. Hopefully they will try to help as at the end of the day you all have too much to lose. No one should judge you, the damage is done now and you all will ahve to live with this, but hey no one had died.
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female
reader, pained +, writes (12 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the question"You've treated this relationship in a poor fashion. Lying and hiding actions."
I think I know that, thank you. I didn't come here looking for understanding and pity, I came for objective help, but can see that some are not objective; merely pointing the finger, which is easy from a PC, from across the pond.
I feel truly dreadful and having spoken to my husband tonight, can see the pain there, even if he denies its existence.I have told his father now, so maybe the pair of them will be able to talk about it now, with his mother too, instead of remaining stiff upper lipped, as his family always do. It took a lot for me to admit it to them, but I have and so be it.
I have never asked him to deal with the mess. I am desperately trying to protect him and his family.
Thanks for all the replies; judgmental, honest, forthright or otherwise. I am happy with plain talking. I have never not admitted blame here, just made other observations, which, interestingly, as an adviser I have been taught to use, with others whom I see in my work.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 November 2007): Dear painedYou are having a really bad time and you do need advice maybe not from this site. First affair it was 17 yrs ago you stayed together maybe he forgets but has not forgiven and this has brought it all back, but this is not the problem. i don't know what IVA is but maybe get in contact with money adviser or someone that can act on your behalf to talk to credit card companys, stait that you no longer wish to use the cards ask if they would freeze th interset for 6 months, agree what you can afford to pay and if there is anymore money in the pot pay as much as you can.Your hubby just needs time, does he know about your illness, you guys really need to talk.Remember for better or worse richer or poorer both your heads are all over the place, but it can be sorted, it will take time don't blame each other thats going round in circles, you are not the first to get into debt and def won't be the last.Lastly take care of yourself health wise and lets us know how you get on.All the best
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reader, rcn  +, writes (12 November 2007):
 You say he's never forgiven you for adultery? Let me ask you this, when you say you deeply regret it, have you forgiven yourself for this action? Then you say you may be addicted to spending. You've treated this relationship in a poor fashion. Lying and hiding actions.
Yes, I do bash over the head quite a bit. One of the best ways to promote change is if you are soooooooo pissed at your actions you see no other choice.
Let me ask you this, prior to the adultery, when looking at your behaviors now, what was different in the way you acted, and behaved? In other words, did any of your personal behaviors change after that incident? The way you view what you do, or how you make choices.
See you answered to many people on here and each time you did all though at times you may have been a bit angry, you've given more and more information (pieces to a complex puzzle). What pieces you gave, your adultery, your spending behavior, your up and down taking responsibility v. placing blame, and your stating it as being an addiction.
Regret is a form of guilt, guilt is a form of pain, same as if you were the one cheated on. People who commit an offense at times experience pain just as the person they commit it against. When we experience pain, and it's not taken care of, it takes different forms. These forms allow us to cope with it. Such as, addictions (including shopping), it can also take forms such as personality disorders. You may need to seek assistance from a counselor to see if you have underlying causes for these behaviors.
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reader, pained +, writes (12 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI'm not sure that I'm making myself clear here.
I have always accepted fully responsibility for the debts. I know that I spent the money. But, I honestly believe that I have an addiction to spending, which Is why I hope that he will have to manage the finances, should he return. I have learned such a hard lesson, I cant see myself ever wanting to see another card again, let alone use one irresponsibly.
I have already taken advice on an IVA and can't see why it is such a bad option for me. I am aware of the contractual obligations, payments and of an increase in those payments, should I find a better paid job. I keep stating that I've taken advice in this, yet I keep being told to take advice. I don't really understand that either, I'm sorry. It also avoids bankruptcy, which protects his parents from public humiliation.
Both he and I commented that he should have looked at his statements. This was an observation, as I already stated and hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I understand about duty of care in the relationship. But I also understand that people should seek to forgive each other, which I wasn't ever, for the affair an I didn't realise this. And, although I mentioned this at the beginning, it was to illustrate that it had happened and that I deeply regretted it, learned from it AND didn't do it again so please, for the great believers in fidelity, don't bash me over the head for a mistake that I made all those years ago.
It wasn't meant to be another facet to this; it was simply to point out that it had happened and we had dealt with it badly and because of that, other things have happened because we didn't communicate. I don't blame my spending on this directly, but I do believe that because his way in picking up things about money and anything I'd bought over the years, inadvertently led me to become secretive.
It was dreadful; I'd have to go through weeks of agonised silence from him, knowing that I'd probably bought something as innocuous as bed sheets, yet, I'd have to try to second guess why he was being prickly for weeks on end and keep asking him what was wrong. Eventually, I bought things in secret and lied because it was easier. He was always really odd when I bought anything; even the kids shoes, for school.
Of course he isn't going to jump back in. I haven't said anywhere that I expect him too; unfortunately the nature of his business means that he has to come back. That part is unavoidable.
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reader, rcn +, writes (12 November 2007):
No there aren't many reasons for you doing this......
No matter what someone else does. No one has that kind of power where their actions cause actions in another person. Your actions are due to choice. Your affair was a choice and your spending was a choice you made as well. His not coming home is due to choice as well.
Lets break down everything that has been said here. You say you're selfish and your actions were wrong. His having to keep track of what you were doing is wrong too. If an adult extends a trust or responsibility to another adult, the one extended the responsibility has a duty to use care, and not display poor judgment that can greatly affect the other person, and their livelihood.
Now lets look at your relationship. First in taking responsibility means you fully own your actions, by no one else's actions have any causation regarding what you do. It's like in a family that fights that gets in trouble for it. One person hits the other one, which is returned by a hit. They are charged separately because the two incidents are completely separate from the other one. Action and reaction is always what we personally choose to do.
In viewing your actions and the pain it has caused your husband, view it in this manner. If someone does many things to you that causes you great pain, and you're out of that area, who would choose knowingly to enter back into that area? It's like I tell others, If I put my hand on a hot stove, I learn if I put my hand there It's going to burn. It's the same in relationships.
Think of relationships as a bank. You make deposits and withdraws. Once more withdraws are taken then deposits, our brain puts up this huge red flag, detaches our emotions from that relationship and calls it quits. Can that be overcome. If the two are willing, it can. If they are not, it's a lost cause. You have to reestablish boundaries within the relationship, such as financial, I think I'd hand that one over to him. But it also sets how each of you determine how you not only expect, but demand how to be treated. Treating people by having affairs and such, is never right, and there is no excuse to justify those actions. Always think about this. If I do ( ) what will the affect be for myself, my husband, my kids. If it has a possibility of providing a negative benefit, that's one actions that doesn't get done.
Look at what you did with this financial area. If you were your own child, how would you view this particular action? If you were having an affair and had the opportunity as your own child to watch you doing this, how would you feel? When you're married it no longer becomes just about you, it's also how others view within your family, how you want to be viewed outside your family.
Here is a big question for you. If you were to go to a funeral and you had to speak about that person, you walked up to the coffin and looked inside, to find out it was you laying there, what would you say about yourself and how you lived your life?
After reading your comments, I have to believe you not only have to work on the marriage (if possible) but you have quite a bit of work you need to do on yourself. Just like how you need to establish relationship boundaries, you need to establish boundaries for yourself as well. What are your core beliefs. Who are you? We all have certain beliefs we live by, I'll use adultery for an example. No matter how bad my relationships get, I have never and would never cheat. Not because my partner is treating me right (some times they haven't) but because cheating is against my personal beliefs. Not cheating is part of me, so no matter what my situation is, I wouldn't compromise my values and beliefs just because of my situation or the actions of another.
You need to work on who it is you are. What are your values. Then build the strength in them. Your values if strong enough are set. They won't change to please another person. You won't compromise them and you'll build yourself to be someone that not only yourself but your children will be proud of. I remember someone saying they overheard their child and a neighbor boy talking. The neighbor boy said superman was his hero, and his son said well my dad's my hero. Instead of just living and taking what comes, live to be the hero of your children. Live for happiness, not just yours but to make other people happy. We have so much interaction with others, and we can benefit so many people just by doing little things.
I hope this helps.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 November 2007): It is pretty easy to see that you are not treating this situation with much maturity. You rush to prove you will be responsible with an IVA (which is in all likelihood a bad idea for your situation), and yet you can still not fathom that you are the only person who created the credit problem. I don't know anything about your relationship, and i don't profess to, but with all this malignant tumor, he should've check his statements, etc., it is pretty apparent to the average person that you are not dealing with your relationship or its problems like an adult. seek professional help before your finances or hold on reality become any more fragile.
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female
reader, pained +, writes (12 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI cut up all the cards weeks ago, as the guilt became too much and I wanted to confess. I had one affair, seventeen years ago. I've never done it again. I didn't realise that he hadn't come to terms with it; I only found that out very recently. I was very shocked. We both agreed that had we sorted all that out, things would have been different and we wouldn't be in the mess we are now.It isn't a case of asking him to come home with a few choice words to bail me out. I don't expect him to do that at all. It's my problem. I wish that I could pay his debts back to him, but I can't at the moment. He needs to come home, because of the nature of his work. There are things that need to be done, from the house, which will only stay not done for a couple of weeks, at most. He also has children, both of whom are suffering, obviously. He also cannot stay with his parents forever; they have their own lives to lead.I already work as a volunteer, for a well known charity and I've just lost almost four stone in weight, so I am trying. I made the decision to do something about all this. It was very difficult to tell him.These cards have been spent on for some years, and I simply failed to realise just how bad it all was.There has been fault on both sides and although, I was the perpetrator of the misdemeanours, but we haven't dealt with them, sadly.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 November 2007): Come on guys and gals - give the poor woman a break. She's accepted that she's been a fool over money, but who hasn't at some time? I know I have. One person's significant amount is another person's peanuts, and none of us here know what the actual figure is, and this could be 'solveable' with a little effort.
Although there's no actual question in her original post, I suspect that she's looking for a way to get her husband back home to sort this mess out, and him running away to his parents is not going to help much. Perhaps someone might have some ideas on that front rather than putting her in the stocks and throwing rotten fruit at her?
Marriage is all about being part of a team, and if the team breaks up the game is lost. There's kids involved here too remember, and all this is bound to have an effect on them if there's no 'united front' put up.
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the question"You ultimate goal is to get him back home, and your refusing the help that will get him back."
I'm not really sure that I understand that comment. I haven't refused any help either. I just haven't received any, yet apart from that given from the IVA company. It only all happened ten days ago.
Perhaps, if someone reading this, with any experience of credit card debt could comment I'd be grateful. I'm not going to be a sitting target for those, who know nothing of me, or my life. I am grateful for all the replies.
I have stated that I am selfish, accept responsibility and am trying to sort it out. I know not what else to do.
My comments about his card accounts are merely observations. I am not condemning him. I know that I have done a very wrong thing.
As for assumptions about my ego, then I might suggest that it is better not to judge those, who ask for help and advice.
I can't really feel any lower and certainly am not feeling egotistical by any stretch of the imagination.
Thanks all.
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female
reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the question"Why is it his responsibility to see if you were responsible?"Because, he too, benefited from the items bought from his cards. He told me last week that he was aware that this was probably going on, but chose to do nothing. I am sure that he wishes that he had acted upon his instincts.I am not apportioning blame here, I am simply stating that there are always two sides. And, yes, I did accept responsibility. I thought I'd made that clear. I am the one setting up the IVA and on my own, aren't I?
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI accept the vehemence shown here by some; but surely, when someone earns a specific amount, then it should alert them when more money than is earned is spent.At no point in this discussion have I denied responsibility for any of this. I just wanted to 'talk' about it. I have to live with this for a long time in a tight knit community and accept that I've risked his business and yes, this is unforgivable. But, I have admitted to it all and to the fact that I have a problem, which I am now sorting out.I am trying. I was only diagnosed with the tumour, on Tuesday, so it isn't really being used as an excuse. It was a bit of a shock, that's all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 November 2007): Childhood abuse? Are you kidiing?!
You absolutely cannot blame something that happened decades before for the appalling thing you did to your husband. Playing the illness card isn't going to work either. You knew exactly what you were doing when you were doing it, and if you were aware of the reasons for it while you spending all his money then you should have sought help from someone to control your behaviour.
"but he isn't blameless. He didn't check his own credit cards or the bank statements,, or reign in my spending."
This is the most selfish thing I have ever heard. He didn't do these things because you were his wife and he trusted you. You then went and completely abused that for your own gain. DO NOT try and blame him for what you did, this in no way is his fault and I think you know that deep down.
Why should it be up to him to sort out all the mess? You created it, grow up and sort it yourself.
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the question''So what you were looking for in the relationship was a father figure. to tell you what you can and can't do?''
No, I simply commented on the fact that he should have looked after his OWN credit card accounts and checked them now and again.
I graduated with a degree, then had to pay for a further qualification. Unfortunately, my area of specialism is very competitive and although I have tried, for four years to find the employment in this field, I am beginning to accept that it probably is unlikely and I shall have to find work in a similar, lesser paid area. But, yes, I accept that I must try to do this and have already started applying. I have been out of the work arena for many years, working only as a volunteer.
Unfortunately, my leaving home isn't simple either and without giving away anything on a public arena such as this, it just isn't a practical or feasible option. I am also employed by the business, which is also problematic. There would be no equity either at all, so I would have to leave, with the kids and become homeless and be rehoused, as an intentionally homeless person, which takes longer. I don't want a divorce, or to move, initially. I want him to come home, look after his business; even if this means that we just live under the same roof, in the short term, with little communication. I accept that it will be a long time before he speaks, let alone decides what he's going to do in the long term. I just think that he needs to be careful with his decision, because of the complications of the wider picture.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 November 2007): I would absolutely NOT think about an IVA until you've sought advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau and had a debt advice interview.
Do not do anything until you've sought professional advice.
Phil
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI did reply to this before, but my answer hasn't appeared. Yes, I agree that I have been selfish., I have never said otherwise. However childhood abuse probably didn't help here. I have also just been diagnosed with a malignant tumour, so I'm not as good as I would normally be in dealing with it. Yes, I have lied to him and yes, I am selfish, but he isn't blameless. He didn't check his own credit cards or the bank statements,, or reign in my spending.
Yes, I am not surprised he hasn't come back, but I didn't ask to be judged. I know what I've done and if he divorces me, which is likely, then I will pay for this for the rest of my life. I was at university, when the debts accrued and was not supported, mentally by him at all. He laughed at me. When I failed to get a job, after uni, I was very low and also had college debts. Discussing money has always been difficult.
I am trying to find work and have refused to become a bankrupt, so that none of the assets from the business are sold to fund it. I don't want to put him, or his family through this and am trying to deal with it on my own, as best I can.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 November 2007): What a mess but you need to handle it head on. You did mess with his head and i am surprised that he put up with you for so long. You were bored!? Why didnt you keep yourself busy, work and earn some money to pay off the debt. If i was him i would run like hell and never speak to you again. You have spoilt things from day one by the sound of things so why should he come back. What would he be facing if he did come back, MORE LIES? You are getting just what you deserve, sorry to sound so harsh, but you now need to try and sort out this mess on your own. If you do come through it ok then that is proof to him that you have got yourself out of it without his help. But you did get into without his help in the first place.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 November 2007): Hi there, he knew about the affair and has laid his trust in you since, you have recognised the debt and doing all you can to put that right, we can all fall so easily in to that one, credit card companies are alsmost begging us too.....stop beating your self up, he'll either come round when the anger gets locked away, or dealt with the way he does, but they are best left too it, in their own way, own time...
The familly business is the more complicated source of events to follow with so many people involved, but at that, I take it you will get the chance to communicate to him.
The best you can do for now is continue to be the supportive Wife Mum and Daughter in-law as and where you can, that in its own right can be enough to deal with.
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionI applied for the IVA because this will take my credit rating down to zero. It prevents me from having cards, cellphones etc for six years which I feel goes some way to proving that I am sorry and also it prevents me from doing it again. It also saves him and his family from a bankruptcy stigma. I am more than happy to be removed from business accounts etc and I have applied for other jobs, but they don't just come out of the sea. I have just been diagnosed with a malignant tumour, so it's all a bit much at the moment and I could do with support over that, but realise that I won't get it from him as as you rightly state, the trust is gone.
My husband is a very private, principled man, who will be hurt so much by this and I am so very sorry and yes, ashamed. I never want to see another cedit card again.
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reader, pained +, writes (11 November 2007):
pained is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThere are many reasons for my doing this; including his refusal to deal with my affair and try to come to terms with it. He simply closed up about it. I can understand that he must feel terribly betrayed. I have arranged for an IVA to prove to him that I am repentant. Unfortunately, I work for the business and live in the business home, so divorce would probably mean selling up, which will leave him without a business at 48 and the inability to start again and this will affect his parents who are partners with him. I am so sorry that it happened. I was bored, he worked long hours and I just didn't realise how bad the debts were. He was always so difficult about money and it was just easier to lie, sometimes. I have been so selfish. I just need him to come home, for the kids and to see if at least we can talk about it. He says he doesn't hate me, but he doesn't want to be near me, understandably.
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