A
female
age
51-59,
*eepgirl97
writes:My boyfriend lied to get me back and I found out. Now what? We were split up for months, I loved him but was tired of the fighting. He continued to call and write. Finally, tired of being lonely and missing him, I tried to be honest with him and told him up front that if he answered yes to any of the following questions, that I would NOT be coming back to him, because I would not be able to handle any of these scenarios in my mind. I was not trying to condemn him for having done anything while we were apart, I know I had no right, it was none of my business. But before I packed up and went back to him, I needed honest answers. He answered all my questions, even elaborated on how he was telling the truth. I went back to him and lo and behold, because his computer sits next to mine, I glanced over and I saw an icon on his desktop with my name (notepad). I asked him about it and opened it, he had HACKED INTO MY EMAILS and copied them to his computer. He had also tried putting a wire tap on my phone WHILE WE WERE SPLIT UP. And then it hit the fan. Again I questioned him with the SAME questions before I came back and he had LIED on every single question. He said he lied because he knew that if I learned the truth he would have lost me forever. Now here I sit, crying every night, wondering if I should stay or go. How stupid am I? I love him but I feel in my heart I will never trust him. This is the second time he has hacked into my email and invaded my privacy. I know he loves me but I can't trust him now and I am completely obsessed with what he did. Do I just throw love away and leave? for my peace of mind? or stay and tough it out, hoping time will heal, yet always living with hurt and smouldering resentment??
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 March 2008): http://ezinearticles.com/?Are-You-Having-Trouble-Forgiving-Someone?&id=280860
Right click after highlighting entire link to go to page, or copy and paste into your browser. Hope this helps you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 March 2008): What i think is sad is that someone, name withheld, has proclaimed herself the ethics committee for this site, and has really lost focus on the poster....my naming you about your advice was because I thought it was a quick fix for a complicated problem and it did not help the poster make her own decision about her own love life, I think this is possibly irresponsible and reckless behavior and I think it is sad, much like you tried to sensor other aunts whose attitudes and opinions you don't agree with concerning obese people.
People in love sometimes do crazy things, it doesn't mean they are crazy or have a character disorder or any of the things you described her boyfriend to be without ever having met him or knowing all of the details, as the poster withheld some details....and I think as an aunt here, I have to understand that my advice is probably worth what it was paid for and I need to be open to being disagreed with but not chastised and reprimanded by a self proclaimed boss.....and critique someone's elses advice that I am about to completely go against, especially when it is the only advice so far on the page. My focus whether you agree with it or not was on the poster and helping her solve her own problem, not to win a contest for the best advice or the number one spot as an agony aunt, I could give a rats ass about that! I merely was using your advice as a reference and an example for how she herself was reacting to her boyfriend's reading of her emails, and to correct you in that he in no way "broke the law" not in the USA.
Sorry if that pissed you off...it wasn't my intention, I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were a big enough person to accept what I was trying to do here, help the poster.
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 March 2008): Agreed, Oldersister. Thank you for input. Good then, I'm sure many of the other Aunts on this post, have taken note and so glad you learned something from it, as well. Not only forums can work for these issues but private messaging is the way to go too. Let's all make sure to enact that rule in the future, Take care now. :)
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reader, anonymous, writes (16 March 2008): Thank you for your private message, Richard. I wrote you back a reply...before I saw your posting on here. Yes-in that posting you speak of, I did voice my concern over prejudical remarks aimed at "people of size "and I stand by that. (March 12) Richard, there are many young, impressionable people who read the answers on this site, and I felt something was needed to be said so others know that this type of thinking about 'people of size' is a very inappropriate way, to think in life. It is unacceptable to view 'fat' people as being folks that should not be given respect. Clearly some of the Aunts in this posting thought this way. And I was saddened to read that.
However..I would like to state, in that March 12 posting, I did NOT point out any of the Aunts 'by name' or point fingers at them. How you interpreted my views was of your own doing. I would never take the chance to opportunize and declare another Aunt 'by naming' them, in such a public way. 'Dropping names' in an petty attempt to bolster one's advice is uncalled for and highly inappropriate behavior.
I think as Aunts on this site we need to support and care about each other. We don't always agree with other's say, but we need to be respectful of each other's comments and advice. Some people believe in a complete straightforward honest approach..but when it becomes a thoughtless approach when one doesn't care about the damage they cause with their words. It has to be said, to all Aunts/Uncles. If someone has something another Aunt says that you don't like, please use the option of private messaging him/ her. Let's all remember, this site is for helping others in need-not for tearing down each other's advice. We all take time away from our lives to voluntarily work hard to better people's live's, and offer insightfulness and support..let keep this all in perspective and refrain from tearing down, the hard work and efforts of others.
Apologies dear poster, for hijacking your thread, yet once again. I'm done.it's time to move on, folks. Take care, all.
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reader, Jeepgirl97 +, writes (16 March 2008):
Jeepgirl97 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi everyone, thank you all.I'm so tired of crying and feeling sorry for myself.I have spent the last few days driving myself insane. I finally see where I need to step up to the plate and take some responsibility too. Maybe I did set him up. I see that now. Thank you Oldersister. Also thank you Richard for the male point of view. I guess if I can pick myself up off the floor now and quit whining and look at it for what it is, yes, he DOES love me. And I love him, else why would we have gave up our "contented single life" and still pursue one another? We've BOTH said we had found what we wanted. And yes, I agree, that our fighting has usually stemmed from utter stupidities like our insecurities, we are terrified of losing one another. How dysfunctional are we? But we are working on it. Thank you all so much for even caring to help me. Love to all of you and Happy St. Patties. One more thing though, does anyone know a good book on How to Forgive and Let Go?
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reader, Richard_EMids  +, writes (16 March 2008):
 Oh dear, what is Irish49 arguing now:
"I think it takes an Aunt with compassion and respect for others to never publicly criticize another's Aunt's advice."
I've just come from my Follow-Ups where she was needlessly telling the other Aunts on 12th March that they're "sad." I might be wrong, but I think that's called publicly criticising other Aunt's advice.
Hey Jeepgirl. Your question is one that can be interpreted in different ways. When we're angry or emotionally upset our perceptions can get a little distorted. So let me put a few points for you to consider:
1) It seems he loves you, and rightly or wrongly, lied to win you back. He was desperate and had no choice - if he told you the truth you wouldn't have come back - whereas if he told you a lie he could get you back, then maybe level up later. It was a "no brainer" from his perspective.
2) About the emails. How did you find out about this - you say you read files on his computer? Did you have any compunction when you were reading files on his computer? Maybe, only maybe, did he do this out of love and jealousy for you? Likewise, when you say he tried a phone tap.
3) Are you able to identify exactly what is causing you the hurt and smouldering resentment? Is it the emails, the lies or the "scenarios." I know that you have also mentioned trust, but from what you have descibed it seems he could re-build the trust. So - the question is whether you can get over the hurt and resentment?
4) a)You wouldn't be together if he hadn't lied to you.
b)"Scenarios" wouldn't be there if you hadn't broken off.
c) You are where you are - both of you seem to regret the break-up.
d) You have to weigh up the new issues plus whatever caused the original break up, that's you Jeepgirl, because his mind is made up I believe. He wants you.
Good luck, Richard
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reader, shandygirl +, writes (15 March 2008):
 I was not saying that it is your fault that he is insecure, I was only saying to help him with it if you want to be with him, hi insecurity is not your fault.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): I think saying where fear exists love cannot is saying that you aren't really in a state of loving bliss with all the niceities of trust, and adoration that go along with it, but I don't know of one successful love relationship that has not gone through periods of doubt, frustration and fear....from the sheer fact that you love so much, you recognize the pain of losing it or being betrayed and played for a fool....it happens to the best of relationships, it is how you handle those obstacles to love that will determine the success of the relationship, and I do think it has everything to do with the characters of the two people involved....it is not an easy thing to get to the bottom of, but you have to decide if you love enough to go through with it, that is what I believe love is all about, the concious decision to be a loving person and to love someone else, and like any decision, it takes some research and some practice and some time and lots of self awareness and understanding of your other's needs. If this relationship is not satisfying your needs and his, then it is not going to work if you can't base it on an underlying friendship.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): Well, Irish, I have had this problem with you before, taking total offense at my referring to your advice. As I said it was just this one time that I think your advice was really a bit over the top without having all of the facts, I was about to completely contradict it, yours was the only advice on the page, and mine was somewhat in response to yours, I stated what I thought of your advice as a "frame" for mine, I know you probably think I am a rude American, but I am simply stating that I disagree with this particular advice, it was pretty one sided all against him stating he was a fearful insecure, controlling person....I don't think you can judge that about a person's entire character without knowing more about them or what led up to this incident.
I can assure you that I am not any of those things, that is not the core of my character and I am guilty of reading my boyfriend's email, while we were in a relationship, not when we were broken up....and I wanted to try to explain what was behind it and how we resolved it.....and what happened during.....
I also comment when I agree with other's advice on the page as I am adding to their advice without restating what they already said.
Here again, you have misinterpreted my intention.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): Ok, well this information in your last post sheds light on the whole picture here.....if he did all this while you were broken up and you had no intention of getting back together with him, then, yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.
And if you were broken up and he slept with some other women, he wasn't cheating so why did you ask him to tell you about it and base your decision on coming back to him on that information, that doesn't make sense to me either...it is like he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't with you.
I did not write my post with the attempt to tell you that you are to blame and that his behavior is justified because of that....this by the way is a very linear way of thinking on your part, and faulty. What I am asking you to do is to look at it non linearly, to understand the bigger picture for him.....was probably not to hurt you.
But maybe it was, if you two were broken up and you were basing restarting your relationship only if he had not slept around while you were apart, he was looking for proof that you did that as well while you were apart perhaps. If that is the case your relationship sounds like it is based on punishing each other and isn't very healthy. I was talking about if you had still been together and everything was good about the relationship except for some issue that came up that you may not have been forthcoming about....I am just guessing on what it is you are talking about as you did not specify what your questions to him were or how he lied.
You are in the relationship you know him and the situation best....I am saying though that his reasons for doing it are probably not what you think because right now you are only feeling, not thinking about it from his perspective...there are two sides in every relationship and it is impossible to see the other guys view point, impossible unless you put away all of your defenses and actually listen to them and seek to understand them first before judging them or their actions.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): I had another thought about email and their privacy.
If your man is in the corporate world, as I am, you have a somewhat different attitude about email....when you work for a corporation, your emails are not at all private, they are forever stored on your computer's hard drive and some corporations have programs that allow them to read your mail at any time....email is often used in law suits by corporations when faced with a suit from a former employee...it is a great source of information, a timeline of events and is considered to be company property.
I know this is not the way it is in personal relationships, but if you think about it, it is a partnership you have here, much like an employee and his corporation that he works for so in a way that makes everyone have to have a boss, someone that they always have to deal with and work issues out with and hopefully it is done in a truthful manner, but when that partnership is off balance, email is often used as a way of fact finding when multiple parties are involved and hopefully is used to help resolve conflict or find the truth of what actually happened. It is a mind set you get from years in the corporate world, especially at the management level...to him it may not be more than a tool to get information....so it seems less like an invasion of your privacy to him because he doesn't consider email private...
You have two different individuals here, with two different mind sets, feelings, and possibly values....this is the messiness of relationships, of partnerships.
That being said, even though they are hard, a solid partnership/relationship is what makes one happiest in this world...it where goals can be achieved together, and joy can be shared in the richness of your life, without them, you pretty much have nothing.
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reader, Jeepgirl97 +, writes (15 March 2008):
Jeepgirl97 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThank all of you for the input. Its nice to know I have sisters out there. But in reading some of them, they are implying that in some way I am to blame for my boyfriend's behavior and that he apparently was justified. Yes, he was betrayed in the past by ANOTHER WOMAN years ago, before we met. I know none of you so there is no reason to lie, which would be like lying to myself. I have NEVER cheated on him or given him reason in 5 years to be so suspicious of me. His "character" before we met was pretty shady and to give him credit he has changed so many things about himself and tried to make himself into a good man, which he is at his core.That is the light I see and where my love comes from BUTTTTT..... please people. Here is my point I think you're missing: I ASKED, BEGGED, INTEROGATED, worded questions every way I could to cover all bases. Specifically I said: Look, I'm content in my new life right now, not happy but content. You are asking me to come back to you and I want to so bad but I can't be hurt anymore. Before I even consider it I need to know if you have been seeing anyone, been on date lines, sleeping around, etc. He didn't even ask why that was such a big deal since we were split up. He just flat out LIED and lied ELABORATELY. I felt like Hiliary listening to Bill rationalize why what he did "wasn't sex." I feel he should have told me the truth BEFORE I came back even though he risked losing me forever. He lied, I found out and here we are. Not only did he lie, he invaded my privacy WHILE WE WERE SPLIT UP and he knew at that time I had no intention of coming back. I came back to him on the foundation of deception and even now, he does not understand the seriousness of this. I have lost my respect and trust in him. I DID ASK HIM and my decision to come back to him was based on my interpretation of his answers which turned out to be all lies. Now what??
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): I am sorry but I don't think Irish has all of the facts and her advice for this one time is a bit over the top and sounds like she is "reacting" to what he did without understanding it."
Totally unecessary, Rythym. I think it takes an Aunt with compassion and respect for others to never publicly criticize another's Aunt's advice. Rythym, I have had this problem with you before. Why can't you give advice to others without denigrading another other Aunt's advice. You have a right to state your opinions and feelings as well as I have, but you don't have the right to make cruel assumptions on what other Aunts think and how they interpret the poster's question. Everyone on this site, has a right to be respected and heard. So please, just stop this lashing out, at other Aunts. We are a community service here, simply looking to help others. We all have to work together as a team and show some integrity. Next time you disagree with what I say, may I ask that you private message me. Thank you.
Poster, while I feel all the advice given you, is simply just that...advice. At the end of the day, you can make the decision with whom you feel has given you the best counsel, to what works best in your situation. Take care, hun and all the best.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): By the way, reading someones email is not hacking and is not considered against the law in the US. Hacking refers to the theft of personal information to use for identity theft, like bank information, social security numbers and the like. You two were intimate, he had to know you well enough to guess your password and read your mails, and he copied them to his PC so he could read them later at his leisure....it was wrong of him to do that without your permission, he probably hoped you would not find out, his intention was not to hurt you, but to understand you and the truth, and he has some legitimate reason not to trust you...you may not like feeling forced to be more open in this way, that is how you feel and quite frankly you are responsible for your own feelings and what you do with them, he wasn't actually trying to control you as he did not involve you and he hoped you wouldn't know, he didn't do it to hurt you I am sure of that one thing and I would guess he feels devestated that you know and he was found out, when all he was trying to do was to understand the picture you have in your head about what ever issues have come up....
This is a sign to me that something is not working in your relationship. It doesn't mean you are with the wrong man for you. It means that you are not dealing with your issues, all relationships have them, you have to be willing to do the work to communicate and resolve these issues that get in the way of a functional relationship. It sounds to me that he wants a phenomenal relationship, he is striving for perfection in that area and wants it badly for the both of you...he just went about it in the wrong way possibly out of frustration with not being able to communicate and get to the bottom of your issues.
That is what it was for me anyway.
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): I am sorry but I don't think Irish has all of the facts and her advice for this one time is a bit over the top and sounds like she is "reacting" to what he did without understanding it.
I don't know this man's underlying character, so that is up to you to decide. But I will tell you something from my point of view that I have been in his place before and I understand why he is doing it.... and in fact here is a link that explains it better than I could, something from another agony aunt:
http://www.dearcupid.org/question/something-i-want-to-share.html
I hacked into my boyfrieind's email when he droped a bomb on me after 9 months of a relationship, he tells me that his female high school friend that he visits with by email, phone and brief meetings is a secret kept away from her husband....I asked him if he thought she was having an emotional affair with him and he said yes, but then he goes onto reassure me that she is not what he wants....for a romantic partner....well, it did not make sense, and I wanted to know if their affair had been physical, if he was lying to me and telling me what I wanted to hear.
Our relationship was still "uncommited", but I am very serious about him and want to keep him in my life only if he is the kind of man I think he is, faithful, not a cheater, doesn't think cheating in general is OK, he tells me that he doesn't, but here he is having an emotional affair! It doesn't add up....so being close to him, I was able to read his emails to find out, and much to my dismay, I read some other things he had said about Me that upset me, so I really got an eye full....he reacted once he found out pretty much like Irish, but I am not an unstable, insecure, full of fear kind of person, except about the person I am in love with....you can sort of panic thinking that you are chosing the wrong person, you are in love with a faker, love can and does make you blind to people and their faults, especially their character. I have found that it takes months even years to fully know a person's character, not just what they present to the world...and this information is vital to me in choosing a life partner. I would never have gone to the extreme of tapping your phones, though, I have to agree that is a bit much, but men react more strongly to things, like being wronged, being cheated on. It is a very big deal to them and a fear for every man that if he were to marry you that you would cheat on him and possibly take him for everthing, take his kids away.....it is a legitimate fear.
What I can tell you is that he is deeply in love with you...why else would he put himself through this agony of figuring out for himself, not by what lines of bull you may have been feeding him, whether or not you are the real deal....you may be largely to blame, if you have not been completely honest with him or answered his questions honestly or have been telling him what he wants to hear instead of the truth....he is probably suspicious for a reason, isn't he? He wants your relationship to work, and unless he has used anything he has found out to hurt you or retaliate against you, then I think the work here is to be open and honest, forgive him and have him promise to never do it again because going forward you are an open book. I think couples in love often have access to each other's emails, what is the big deal if they have nothing to hide?
I personally don't care to have access to my boyfriend's emails, we share a phone and I can see who he calls and that is bad enough, I don't like it, but it saves him money and I don't mind helping him out.
Anyway, just wanted to give you a point of view different from someone who just doesn't like that sort of behavior, but in today's world, cheating is rampant, people don't have very good morals anymore, and they are very selfish, it is all about the I instead of the we, your man has been hurt before by this type of woman, and he doesn't want to got there again if he can help it come hell or high water!
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reader, anonymous, writes (15 March 2008): Woah! 'After' you both were on a break, he hacked into your emails.? Wiretapped your phone? To me that seemed a bit obsessive and almost 'stalkerish'. It's plain he some deeper problems that only a professional therapist can deal with. He doesn't trust you and even though his lack of trust is not warranted, this was very damaging, disrespectful, controlling behaviors., on his part. Huge red flag.
What we all want is close, romantic relationships that is built on openness, intimacy and trust. It is impossible to have a close, intimate relationship when someone does not trust their partner. Trust involves knowing, that one's partner always has your best interest at heart. It is hard to feel safe and secure when you are involved with someone who would even think about, let alone acting on a betrayal, such as wiretapping and email hacking. That's pretty serious. Clearly he broke the law and he broke your trust. So I really understand your heartache. He is a man driven by his own 'fears and insecurities'. Sadly, the thing about all his deceptive behaviors, is he did it all out of an unrelenting 'fear' of being rejected and losing you forever. Whether we realize it or not, fear influences a lot of our responses, especially our deceptive behavior. And fear causes insecurity which causes one to think they are not worthy of the other. This is why people lie and decieve in love relationships. I don't think he's a real solid, healthy man, hun.
I also think he has damaged this relationship to the core. What he did, was pretty disturbing, scary and disrespectful to you. My opinion, I think his invasive behaviors may be an indicator of rough times, ahead. No relationship is perfect and it requires teamwork, honesty, respect and trust. Right now this union has neither of those three componenets, does it? I say, leave...change your email addresses and phone numbers and start anew. It will be tough but I honestly don't think this relationship is retrievable. You have some rational, hard thinking to do. All I can do is 'suggest' what I think..it's just my opinion. You live with the guy...you are the one who has a future with him. But if it were me...he's be gone. My heart goes out to you dear...take care and be strong.
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reader, shandygirl +, writes (15 March 2008):
He sounds as though he is madly in Love with you. At our age, we have been through a lot of things in our lives, which sometimes reflects onto our present relationships. Evidently, he has been cheated on before. And if there are problems in your relationship, he wants to feel secure, so that is why he did these things.
I think you should stay with him. A man who loves you THAT much, is hard to find. Have patience and understanding with him, and start working on helping him improve his self confidence and insecurities.
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