A
female
age
41-50,
anonymous
writes:I have been experienceing something all my life that is making me increasingly frustrated and angry It's people who assume single people are miserable and lonely. Well, I AM lonely and always have been but it's not bc I'm single - it's because I don't have friends and don't know how to make them. I've tried but NO ONE wants to be my friend. Male? They want to date me (or just sleep with me). Female? They want to set me up with their single guy friend/brother/cousin/co worker/etc. If I say (nicely) that I'm not interested/not looking, I'm wrong because I haven't given him a chance (at least talk to him!) If I do talk to him and still not interested (I say so right up front) I'm still wrong because a) I'm just assuming things and think too much of myself or b) I still haven't given him a chance or c) I led him on in some way. I have spent most of my life "giving the wrong impression" and I don't know how. I mean: I went to a religious school and had strict parents so the only people I was ALLOWED to hang out with were people whose parents were at least as strict as mine. At the lunch table, I was talking to this guy Richie about I forget what (something very mundane I'm sure) and his girlfriend (my friend Christie) kept clearing her throat. I looked at her and asked if she was OK and she said, "I don't know, AM I?" then, "Hey boyfriend, maybe you should get me a drink" He left and she got very cold and said, "next time, anything you want to say to MY BOYFRIEND you can say to ME. Get your own boyfriend. I was given the cold shoulder for a long time. My parents agreed with her that I'd "overstepped". Because they felt (and the Christian circles well into adulthood I've found) feel that men/women cannot/should not be friends unless they are married/engaged. Any other "opposite gender" friends should be kept at a professional distance. I was literally just talking! Another girl in the group, Nicki, decided the solution was to get me a boyfriend. I said I didn't want a boyfriend and she laughed and said, "Yeah you do, you want everyone ELSES boyfriend." Um... no? I tried talking to/hanging out with the girls. I'd been friends with various (small) groups of two or MAYBE three from elementary through HS and one by one they moved away or switched schools. They ALL went from being bullied to being very well liked and totally blossoming. More than once I heard something to the efffect of, "Maybe it was YOU! Haha, just kidding." I never know what I did so wrong because I was always told I was more mature than most of my peers, very nice, very polite, never talked back or complained or argued. Whenever I did I was very swiftly punished (either for real by adults or by shunning from friends). They wanted me to be "real" and "honest" but when I was, they got angry! Nicki and another girl Heather were constantly trying to set me up with guys. I said multiple times that I didn't want a boyfriend because I just wanted to focus on friendship and myself and I was told, "You're too nice to be single" "you don't mean that" "But you NEED a boyfriend". I did get a boyfriend and we NEVER got to go on dates because it was group-dates only and closely chaperoned. I kinda liked it that way because it was safe. Of course, the girls colectively made sure I DID end up alone with whatever guy who immediately began pawing me or trying to stick his tongue in my mouth. My first reaction to the guy who did that was to shove him and stalk away. Immediately, I called my parents and I got grounded for being alone with a guy. My friends got grounded too and they spent the rest of the year making my life miserable. Someone wrote GAY on my locker in white out and enough other girls complained about not wanting to change with me in gym that I was forced to change in the nurse's office. I was "wrong" no matter what I did. A few girls were nice to me but as soon as I said, "so and so is cute" I'd hear, "Oh! You should date him!" or "he's way out of your league" "OK. YOU REALLY NEED A BOYFRIEND". Um, I don't want one. Primarily because I didn't want to get physical. I wanted to go on DATES - one-on-one activities where you sat and talked and laughed and got to know each other to SEE IF you wanted to date. I didn't want people to think I was gay. I was beginning to wander. (I'm not because I've never experienced attraction of any sort to anyone at all). I did end up with another boyfriend and while he was polite (he respected my parents rules and the worst thing he did was six months in request a kiss when no one was looking) I resented it because it took away time with my friends, it took away my alone time, and if I even MENTIONED that another guy (even a celeb) was cute or smiled too much with a salesclerk... I WAS SO TOTALLY CHEATING. Since the relationship was truly that chaste I can see how people would think that. Once again, parents told me I was "very inappropriate" because Mom and Dad would NEVER be that forward with another person of the opposite gender. "You don't hear Mom talking about how cute anyone is, do you? Do you even see Mom and Dad kiss or hold hands or anything like that? No? And we're married! How much more inappropriate is it for UNMARRIED people to behave that way". Once again, females didn't want to be my friend because I was "too weird". I was either "possibly gay" or "trying to get their boyfriend". No in between I thought it would get better in college. Nope. I stopped going to church and when I said in non religious circles that I did not want to have a boyfriend VIRTUALLY EVERYONE thought I meant I was easy or just wanted sex or oral or whatever. I literally got trapped in some very scary and awkward situation I only got out of by crying and freaking out and the (nice) guys were confused and hurt while the not nice guys were angry and told me that I was basically a tease and that I should have been more honest (how... could I have been more honest when I said "I don't want a boyfriend, I don't want to even date") I finally said that I didn't want to do anything sexual and NO ONE believed me because I was somehow the "horniest" person anyone had ever met. Why? Because I talked too much to guys. Because I was "too boy crazy for my own good". I'd literally try to hang out with girls and they'd basically just make fun of me b/c I had NO CLUE what or who they were talking about most of the time because I'd grown up not allowed to listen to music with lyrics except for hymns, wasn't allowed to watch TV, never allowed a cell phone or tablet, my parents had all my tablet/laptop passwords and all that. (I was in college then). I mean... I was really easy to take advantage of because I guess I took everyone at their word when they said they were taking me somewhere to do something. I had no car because I hadn't been allowed to drive. I hadn't been allowed to work, just volunteer. I had no idea how to do anything because even though I'd BEGGED my parents to show me basic stuff they refused because "you'll learn when you're older". I was told I wasn't supposed to be independent at 18 because that's when you start LEARNING to be independent. When the female friends burned me bad, I was told it was because I left church. They literally didn't equip me for anything BUT the life they raised me in. A life where I was supposed to get a degree, move home, get a job, stay home till marriage and so on. No one considered that a) I was NOT as smart and academic as they thought (I had NO IDEA what was going on in school but many of my HS teachers had been near retirement and didn't care so they passed virtually everyone, we were taught VERY limited science and history and all that) b) I was never shown how to repair or build anything because us girls weren't allowed to mow the lawn c) I was never taught how to do much of anything at all because "you'll learn when you get older" and I was never allowed to go anywhere alone. I found out through the college learning lab and a REALLY kind tutor there (like a PhD level tutor) that I literally have a learning disability that makes it near impossible for me to read and understand maps and directions. I literally get lost in square buildings. I'm also, apparently, partially face-blind. I didn't know that existed. Like, I've done that all my life: not known who I was talking to and had to discern it from their walk or their voice). I was called rude and disrespectful all my life when I really didn't know. I wasn't lying. I also have always had vision issues that are near impossible to fix with glasses like depth perception and spatial awareness. The tutor told me, "I am not sure what to do with you. You have no business being on your own right now because you have to rely on others to help with things most people do by second nature. The problem is, you're too trusting because you were too sheltered and you have no idea how to read people or judge character." I still have that problem. I guess I'm rambling, but everyone seems to hate me that I meet and I don't know how much info is too much or when to bring whatever up. I try to just befriend women and come to terms that I can't be friends with men but no one wants to spend time with me because I'm "too boring". Or, I'm too broke and they all want to hang out somewhere expensive. I don't have a car and I can't always afford to pay someone gas money, especially if I have to budget ahead of time $5 and then they drive all over town and want more - there goes my dinner money! Or, we wind up way off the bus route and I'm stuck in a very awkward situation alone with some guy (that has happened so many times I've lost count) I think it's accidnetally-on-purpose. I don't know why it's so hard to plan dinner (or a picnic or window shopping trip) somewhere on the bus line that's low-cost and before 10pm so that I can go. Why it has to be spontaneous and CAN'T be planned ahead. Why people can't come to my place and eat just because I have no TV and "there's nothing to do". Ok... when most of them are watching TV they don't watch it, they talk right over it so...????? I've learned card games online and dice games and tried watching popular shows but just COULDN'T because they're so vulgar and sexed up they make me sick to my stomach. Or, they're all about being lawless or "sitcoms" people are just rude and disrespectful and unfunny. I see why my parents didn't want me watching TV! I like documentries. I like true crime. I like mystery novels but I skim over the sex stuff. I'm honestly disgusted by most of the things I read. I don't have $ and thrift store clothes are getting expensive but I've made some seriously cute skirts and dresses out of material (depending on the cost and labor I can price them online and I do fairly well selling them). I've even gotten good at embellishing them with beading or cross stitching. Some of those sell for REALLY good prices and it makes me proud. I've branched out into beading boots, hats, purses and so on too. Problem is, "friends" want it for next to nothing - like less than the price to MAKE them. I do custom-made things too but I'm told it "takes too long" and sometimes I get overwhelmed. I don't know. I'm not sure what's wrong with me. I made no sense here, I'm embarrassed at my age and how I can't do anything and how I've never been able to make friends with anyone because no one likes me. And how I'm incapable of being independent unless I live like a total hermit.
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (23 July 2023): Anyone who says you think too much of yourself for assuming they might want to date you just because you say upfront that you're not looking is *probably* lashing out because they're hurt or angry or offended that you are shutting down the idea of you dating them. They are most likely taking it personally and not hearing the part where you don't want to date anyone. While men and women can be platonic friends, I've found that most men do not want to have a deep, emotional bond or an intense mental connection with a female they have no chance to marry or be in a LTR with. That's because generally, they want to reserve that level of closeness and intimacy FOR the woman they want to marry or have a LTR with. Other men, of course, want none of that at all because they're primarily looking for the physical aspect and when that goes out the window, so does the chance for friendship. Most male-female friendships are activity based and while not completely superficial, it's not unheard of for two males to be "best friends" or bowling/darts/baseball games/fishing buddies for years before they get "deep" about anything. You are FAR more likely to get that kind of emotional intimacy from another female than you will a male.
What is confusing about a lot of what you said was that you mentioned how on one takes you on "dates" but... you don't WANT a relationship anyway. Of COURSE no one takes you on dates! If a person agrees that dates are to see if you want to be with someone long term and right from the get-go you don't want that, what then is the point of dating? What you really want (I think) is to hang out. As for the "Christian" women who are very possessive of their husbands to the point where they don't want you to even make small talk, that makes sense: they come from a similar culture to the one you were raised in in that male-friendships just aren't a thing. Similar culture in that males and females really don't NEED to be talking or interacting unless they're in a relationship or headed for one. If you don't like that idea, then maybe find a less conservative church.
The assumption that you are easy or just want sex when you say you don't want a boyfriend comes from the fact that our society is very sexual. Most people can't understand why a non-religious person essentially wants to be celibate. You're not wrong for that, but it's going to be hard if you are trying to fit in with a non-religious part of society. They're not sex-crazed heathens but sexuality is important! If you want to remain single and sex-free, that IS going to raise a lot of eyebrows because most women are not going to understand that you're talking to "her man" because he's there and receptive to conversation. EVERYONE has a hard time believing that a person really has no interest in sex at all. Also, a lot of the things you want (emotionally intimate bonding) unfortunately are things you just don't do with a new friend right away. Those things, those types of friendships, are very very rare. It's not because people are sex crazed, it's because most people aren't willing to have that with anyone. They want you to prove yourself worthy of it. They want you to earn it (and you should make OTHERS earn it and prove themselves too if you want to stop being burned!) That lone female who doesn't want to have sex with anyone and isn't a nun IS going to be suspect no matter what she does because close to no one can see how a person could want intimacy without sex. Unfortunately, it kind of goes hand-in-hand. People feel judged by people who seem anti-sex, even if they're only anti sex for themselves. They're going to suggest that you find the right person, or the right way, or the right method, or that you see a doctor, or this or that or whatever. They'll site how lonely you are and don't you want a deep connection with someone? The part where you want all that without the sex is going to cause people to tell you that you can't have it both ways.
I guess, even if you're non-religious and simply want a celibate life, look to nuns and priests and other celibates and see how THEY do relationships/friendships. Most of the time, they DON'T have a best friend with whom they spend a lot of their time and activities. Most of the time, if they live with others it's because they took a vow of poverty and they have to. They certainly don't share a bed and cuddle or bare their souls or rehash all the drama in their lives or just vent at each other because they live simply as possible. They have that intimate relationship with an invisible Deity who supplies all their non-physical needs and they spend most of their time GIVING to others, relying on charity or their church for the physical needs (unless they are paid a salary and in that case, it's not much).
How then, do you make friends? You've got hobbies, but they're almost all solitary! You said you learned cards and dice (I'm assuming so that you can do that when someone offers), so that's a start. Maybe familiarize yourself with a tv/movie series that's well-known but that you don't think it vulgar and disgusting. I'm not sure how true crime isn't, but whatever. Get involved in a COMMUNITY group where you volunteer your time and talents. Political Party Headquarters, maybe a sewing club, art fairs, things like that. Volunteer to teach basic sewing skills or do crafts at women's shelters or schools or churches or something. People will get to know you, people with similar interests and mindsets and EVENTUALLY you will be able to talk about more personal things. Just don't dump your life-story on people all at once. (That's not only scaring people away and risking being unfairly judged, that's DANGEROUS to you).
Anyone who isn't willing to meet for coffee for an hour somewhere on the bus line isn't someone you want to spend time with anyway. Someone who demands gas money to spontaneously drive all over town KNOWING that you are short on cash is not a good person! It's understandable to give someone $5-$10 to regularly take you somewhere they're going anyway just like it's reasonable to pitch in $5-$10 for a shared meal, but if you're that strapped, anyone who genuinely wants to spend time with you isn't GOING to expect that of you. There is not a darn thing wrong with sitting in McDonalds or Wendy's with a plain coffee or meeting at a park on a nice day to eat sandwiches made from home. Those people are clearly not your friends. As for those who think it's "too boring" to go to your house because there's no TV are making excuses.
I don't know what else to tell you: it seems you ARE better off seeking more conservative or religious people but if they're that paranoid about you going after their husbands and unwilling to let you into their little circles, I can see why you shy away. This is especially true if you aren't a mother or don't plan to be - they're very closed minded people sometimes.
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