A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Ok, so my situation is that I'm a virgin, and I always wanted to lose it to another virgin, but I'm almost 20 and girls like that are very hard to come by, this is very important for me, because I wanted to be able to be each other first.I know that at my age it will be very hard to find a girl like that, and when I meet a girl I like, chances are that she will have experience, I have nothing against people who are not virgins, but for me is important and on top of it I obviously want to have deep feelings for her too.I rather lose it to a prostitute because I know that it would not mean anything to any of us, it would be only a measure to get even, I don't want to give my future girl something that she can't give me, and if she lost it already, then I don't see why I should not.I know that if I were to lose my virginity to a girlfriend that wasn't I know that I would resent her, and I would resent myself too for giving in instead of looking for someone else who was a virgin( even if that is a tall order by this point). I rather just resent myself for going against my principles and losing it in a way that I didn't want, but I rather just toss my virginity like it was trash, rather than giving it in a relationship when we can't give each other the same thing.And besides, when I lose it I will be able to date more girls, because finding non virgins is miles easier than finding a virgin, and with that part of my values gone I should not have a problem with it, because I wouldn't be a virgin either.So what do you guys think? Or maybe I should lose it to a casual fling or a high class escort or something? I just feel bad that I would never be able to lose it as I intended, that is just wishful thinking at this point.
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male
reader, JustHelpinAgain  +, writes (31 March 2012):
...... continued from below, hit send accidentally.
Sometime looking is the hardest way to find that special person. Relationships happen when two people lives cross and decide to entwine. We try to go places where we can meet people but from my experience you bump into that person by accident through friends, or at the coffee machine, at the gym, church, etc. You get to know each other and you will slowly discover about each other and as you do you decide subconciously does this feel right and if so the relationship gets deeper and stronger. At this point you are falling in love and I don't know how your virginity test would fit in. Maybe once you are getting close i.e. Just kissing you say something like "I hope you don't mind me not being an expert in relationships, in fact I'm a virgin...." this may give you the chance to find out about her. Or maybe by this point the virginity thing is not priority one. You may after all be pleased to lose your virginity to a girl you love and who loves you?
A couple more things to think about: when I lost my virginity, by chance with a girl who was also a virgin, we both pretended we had already had sex with others!! And when I met my wife many guys had already had sex with her but I was the first to love her and I can tell she felt like a virgin in many ways because discovering love is much more than discovering sex.
I hope you have food for thought even if there are no answers. Now I suggest like others that you stop spending your spare time writing on DC and put yourself in a place where you have a better chance of meeting people. Good luck.
A
male
reader, JustHelpinAgain +, writes (30 March 2012):
OP I too have tried to read everything on this thread. Miamine has just summarised the meaningful comment perfectly.
I think the reason you have got into so much argument is the way you posed your question. I interpreted your question as "I am getting frustrated looking for a relationship with a person that shares my values about sex and should I just give them up and go to a prostitute". I assumed your desire was for a meaningful relationship with much love and the chance of marriage. I replied accordingly. I also think that much of your updates confirm this.
However if you really are just saying that you just want your first sex to be with another virgin with no love or caring then it sounds extremely hypocritical.
As I said before, you will meet the right person
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (30 March 2012):
 PS. About troll posts.. yes, we do get a lot of them. People write in imaginary problems, or provocative questions, just to get responses and to agitate readers. Some are obvious, others are less obvious. But yes, there are tons of them on dearcupid just like other places online.
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female
reader, Miamine  +, writes (30 March 2012):
 Correction: *I don't suggest you go with a prostitute because of your type of moral thinking.
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female
reader, Miamine +, writes (30 March 2012):
Ok, if you are looking for love but it must be from a virgin. Then continue to date. Make sure you tell the woman you meet that virginity is important. If you date enough girls, of the right type... you may just find one...
But again, as I said before, even virgin women might not be interested in a virgin man, or a virgin woman might not really like an emphasis put on her sexual state.
I did read everything, but you can assume what you like if it makes you happy. As I said, nothing you write makes me think differently about men who hold virginity highly.
At your age, there are tons of virgin women around. It is not the case that people become legal and then decide to jump into sex. Many women and men are content to wait until they meet the right person.
You choose to remain a virgin, you also choose to have sex with a virgin, and this is your right. It triggers alarms for me, because we have a lot of older men who did what you did and later have relationship problems. But values and morals are important.
I don't suggest you go with a virgin, because of your morals. Your likely to find yourself a virgin woman eventually and then start hating yourself, or has been pointed out, you may be rejected by women, virgin or not who don't like men who pay for sex.
If you also don't want a religious person and a woman who is waiting for marriage, then you again limit your choices. But at your age, there are many young female virgins around. Continue dating, getting to meet women, and then you might actually find one you like.
Emotionally virginity is a whole different ball game. Prostitutes who have had sex all over the place but never been in love, never felt kindness or never had an orgasm, feel and act like virgins the first time they fall in love. Similar things go for the so-called virgin, who you will find on the pages of Dear Cupid. They are experts at oral sex, anal sex, they've been touched, fingered and a lot more by hundreds of guys... but they got their hymen and they haven't had vaginal intercourse... thus they can call themselves virgins and they are, of the technical kind.
Some of the aunts are right (if you get past their insults of people who think differently) Your values are right for you and you should not change them. They are totally wrong about this being a cure for retroactive jealousy. It's not the woman's past that causes this jealousy, we have had men have retroactive jealousy even when their wife was a virgin. We also have men on Dear Cupid, who know their wives had tons of lovers in the past, and it causes them no problems. Same as the majority of women who don't usually marry a virgin guy.
There are no guarantees or quick fixes in life. You make your choices, and you take the consequences. The problems have been pointed out, including the drawbacks of sleeping with prostitutes. What you choose to do next, is for you and only you to decide. Keep your values, date more, look for the person who is suitable for you. That's what all people have to do, whether they are looking for a virgin, or a guy who likes music, or a woman who likes to use porn, or likes to bake cakes.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Doc H again
Iamheretohelp (or not)
"You would not be so forgiving if the love of your life showed up and had lost her virginity to a male prostitute, would you? No. Stop having double standards."
And how exactly did you come to that conclusion based on anything the OP said?
At all?
(Another example of that prejudiced stereotyping I mentioned, OP- and for the record- I myself wouldn't mind at all).
As it is OP, re-reading your comments, it seems that you have a whole bunch of other important criteria besides virginity (a good thing)- and virginity itself is proving more a hindrance to you forming a relationship with a nice girl, rather than a bonus. In which case I'm actually thinking your original plan of cutting out virginity as a dating criteria and going to the prostitute IS the better option (and I forgot to mention- at the time I went to one, I myself actually had nobody in particular I wanted to date at the time, so I wasn't missing anything).
And just remember- if you felt you NEEDED the prostitute to cure a personal growth issue- then the people that would hold it against you DEFINITELY aren't people you'd really want in your life anyway- whether you stayed a virgin or not.
So take the advice of what was said by (ironically) that poster who thought you were trolling- and stop wasting time arguing with these people and start living your life- trust me, you could blow away hours per day for months here and have made no progress- while more important things could have been done- it's tempting to come back for more- but don't. And definitely don't come to procrastinate on the decision!
Just be happy also that people like this DON'T like you- it's a huge lifestyle bonus to have such people voluntarily not include themselves in your day-to-day life. ZERO drama.
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female
reader, chigirl +, writes (30 March 2012):
"Imo not assuming, is common sense that you cant ask someone that question lightly unless you know them well already, but as i said before i do try to get to know them, but sure is demoralizing as hech when you have been trying to get to know her better for a while and you actually start to like them just to find out that she isn't the kind of girl Imo looking for and i have to move one to look again, and is demoralizing because you feel that it was almost what you were looking for, and if it wasnt because of that small detail it would have been a go, is like you feel you almost had what you wanted only to be taken away."
I think that part there is something to think about. You should know that this is what all people go through. Not just you. You're looking for something special, because you already know what you are looking for. Most people who end up in relationships fast do so because they really don't know what they are looking for, and only figure it out as the relationships fail. Once they form a specific idea of what they want they'll have to be doing exactly the same thing that you described above.
I only thought it sounded like you haven't been looking because of the way you talked about it. If that was wrong, then ok. So you have looked. But still, at 20, I wouldn't think it is weird at all that you haven't found "the one" just yet. You're looking for someone very close to a perfect match for you. Young people who are out searching for love are looking for the ideal as well, and they too get disappointed, need to cut their losses, and keep searching.
The thing is you can't let it get to you. Even if you didn't need her to be a virgin I think you'd find it just as hard. It might have taken you longer to find out that you weren't a match, and you'd be more heartbroken and demoralized when you had to let them go. At least the deal-breaker you have is something you'll find out pretty early on. And I will still claim that if you romance her enough and build up this intimate atmosphere between you and her, then you can ask her a lot earlier than it seems you are doing so far.
If you start up flirting and going on dates then I think it'd be perfectly acceptable to ask her this after only 4-6 dates, or less, depending on the chemistry between you and her. But, if you are getting to know her on a friendly level, well first off you'll just be put in the friend zone. Most men don't know how to get out of the friend zone. But the other thing is that you'll then have to wait a loooong time before you can ask her that question.
In what manner do you get to know women? By romancing them, or by befriending them? This could be one clue to fixing your problem and making the search run more smoothly. In a romantic setting it is okay to ask a lot sooner than if you just met and are in a friendly setting.
"so day by day girls that could have been ideal for me, suddendly arent, and that can decrease fast"
Word of comfort: the ideal girl for you is someone who is a virgin because she values hers and your virginity. Wasn't that so? The ideal girl is not someone who is a virgin purely because she hasn't had a chance to have sex yet. So, your ideal girl will also be looking for a male virgin. And with the equally low number of virgin men as there are virgin women (it makes sense that if girls are having sex then most guys are also having sex), your chances are going up, not down. Your ideal woman will be out there looking for you as well, keeping her eyes open, and maybe wondering if she should just lose it at a one night stand or something. Just like you. But the point is... your ideal woman will be someone who waits, and also denies men who are not virgins.
"well the numbers arent in my favor, i dont think is so good to be delusional and naively think that i have good chance, when unfavorable numbers mean bad chance."
If everyone thought like that then no one would buy lottery tickets, thats for sure. And people wouldn't really try dating either, as there are a lot more men and women not suited for each other than there are compatible ones. This iis negativity again. Just because the numbers of suitable candidates are low doesn't mean there are no suitable candidates, or that you can't ever find them.
" so i think is fair to say that give and take issues are a real problem among couples."
Okay, I never seen or heard of them that's all. Yes, here on dearcupid we see all sorts of things, but they are not in a majority. And, several times it's the same person asking the same question over and over, making it seem like there are more people with the problem. But give and take mentality means you aren't mature. No offense to your friends who struggle with this issue, and taken your ages into account I don't think it is fair to expect more. However, these are things you grow out of, if you struggle with them. Most do anyway. Because in a relationship both partners need to give. You can only take as much as you are given, and if you are not given enough then you will suffer, yes. But you can never demand more. If you do not get enough you will end the relationship. But there are no guarantees that the person you are with will give to you, and thus if you want to be a good person and a loving partner, you must give without expecting things in return.
If you start expecting things in return then you will not be a good or loving person. You'll only do things if things are done for you, and the relationship changes from a relationship and to a business transaction. It'll turn into a tit for tat game, and it'll just make you miserable.
Basically, if you love someone you give from your heart. If they love you they'll give from their heart automatically, without expecting anything back. If they just take and take, then they don't love you.
Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing though, and thats where the confusion lies. What I mean by give and take is that you keep a score over who "owes" what to whom. This sort of keeping score will ruin any relationship. Example, say I went to my boyfriends family for dinner. Then I demand he attends my family's dinner in return. Tit for tat. He refuses. Then we have a huge fight over it. Or, he feels he owes it to me, and goes and has a miserable time and we're both in a bad mood.
The healthy option is for me to only attend his family's dinner if I want to do it for my own sake, and out of the sake of giving. Because maybe me going makes him happy. And that happiness should be award enough. Then him going to my family is not a demand, but a question. And maybe he will think that me being happy is most important, and even if he doesn't "owe" it to me, he'll go.
Or maybe he'll do other things for me out of love and because he wants to without expecting anything in return.
If we kept scores, then what happens if he buys me something expensive? I have to buy him something back or forever be "in debt" to him? This is why I say tit for tat kills a relationship. It kills any form of relationship, friendship and family ties as well. I know, because my father was a tit for tat man, and he only helped us, his children, if he could get something in return for it. And believe me, every time he didn't get his way in something he'd start bringing up whatever it was he did for us. The result is we no longer want anything to do with him, and we NEVER take "favours" from him because we know that they are not real favours. They are just him buying us and expecting things in return.
Extreme example of my dad: he once helped us move, and the price was that he had to tell us where to put the furniture, and how the furniture should be put together, and we had to do things HIS way, even though it was our furniture and our apartment. This is what happens if you have the give and take mentality. Instead.. just give. Then people will also give to you.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the question''why don't you stop posting here on this site and go pursue a real relationship since you say you've never really had one.''
well, as soon as i find a girl i like then i will, the whole point of all of this is that i have trouble finding a relationship, so is a bit pointless saying that, if it was as easy as that i wouldnt be here.
''Going on a few dates and talking to people about relationships is not the same as having one.''
yea i know, but you guys were saying that i didnt even had dated or had experience in romance, wich is not true, i may not have experienced a relationship, but im not clueless.
''I'm sure you realize the difference between sex with a prostitute and sex with a person who actually wants to be with you in a relationship, you're not dumb obviously. prostitution is for people who objectify other people and who are too cowardly or too lazy or too whatever to have a real relationship which would include sex- don't put yourself into that situation. most women will never knowingly date someone who patronizes prostitutes so you will turn yourself into a would be liar.''
again, as i said before, yes the prostitute option it may be a bit too much, what i tried to said is any type of casual encounter, i would change the title of this post and put 'casual sex' instead of 'prostitute' if i could.
''Stop agonizing and obsessing and start living your life, as other people have said there are plenty of women who are still virgins at your age and above, so what is really stopping you. or is this just a troll post?''
i know is possible to find them, as i said before i have found a few, but we didnt really have chemistry or they had boyfriends already, is hard to find virgins, and on top of it i should be able to date them and that we like each other, and thats it, i dont see what else would get in my way as you say.
and no this is not a troll post i assure you; are there even troll posts on this site? i have yet to see on of those in this place.
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionto Doc H:
thanks, is good to see that at least someone understood what i said, and is not judging without having read all of it. but yea thats what i said, this happens often when people find out that im looking for a virgin, they barely know what i mean with it and they are already enraged, that is another problem with looking for a virgin, not only is harder to find because aside from finding someone who you connect with and is a virgin, you also have to deal with the backlash from people who just like to think the worst in men looking for virgins.
to LovelyLemon and Wisdom:
thanks for your imput, and for bothering to read everything, all you have said has gave me something to really think hard about.
to chigirl:
i would like to resolve the assumptions that people think i have about this.
''you have a negative outlook on your future''
well, in this one i cant really argue, i really dont see the future playing to my favor.
''you haven't dated women, you just assume there are no virgins left, or very few if any''
well as i said before i have in fact dated, and i do know there are virgins left, but for personal experience not a lot, and even when they are is not a sure thing that we may like each other.
''you assume that the women you will date will probably lie to you and fake being virgins''
well, luckyly until now i havent found women that have lied to me about it(as far as i know), but that is just mainly because they at one point or another make it know that they have experience, but i know some(that i havent given them that much attention) that like to appear pure nd chaste because of shame or wathever, when they are not.
''you assume that women also care about virginity of a man (most don't, and wouldn't see it as you "giving" them anything)''
oh believe me, i know that, in fact is the norm, most people nowadays dont care about that, that is precisely why people dont care if they go around having flings. but that is irrelevant, because i dont care about those girls, i care about the girls that i realize that do care, if i give my partner my virginity that i valued so much i expect that she realizes that and feels special for it.
''you assume that you can't ask whether a woman is a virgin or not until some yet undefined period of time has gone by, and that this time is too long to wait, and you don't want to waste your time, or hers. So you just don't try getting to know women at all''
im not assuming, is common sense that you cant ask someone that question lightly unless you know them well already, but as i said before i do try to get to know them, but sure is demoralizing as hech when you have been trying to get to know her better for a while and you actually start to like them just to find out that she isnt the kind of girl im looking for and i have to move one to look again, and is demoralizing because you feel that it was almost what you were looking for, and if it wasnt because of that small detail it would have been a go, is like you feel you almost had what you wanted only to be taken away.
''you also assume women are easy and willing to sleep with everyone as soon as they can, hence the idea that "every day a woman has sex for the first time" and hence you will be looking at less and less options...''
im not saying that women are easy, granted some of them are, but most of them arent. when i said that everyday my pool of girls to date shrinks i mean in the sense that in modern society casual sex, or sex in general for that matter, is not looked like something that one should wait, and most people dont care that they are experienced, so why should they dont have it?, if they want and can they can go and have it. what im trying to say is that getting sex nowadays is easier than ever was, so is more likely for people to lose their virginity in a lot of ways, so day by day girls that could have been ideal for me, suddendly arent, and that can decrease fast.
''you don't know what your options are, you haven't been looking or asked''
again, i have and i know.
''you don't think you can find a virgin, so you're basically giving up because you are being negative''
well the numbers arent in my favor, i dont think is so good to be delusional and naively think that i have good chance, when unfavorable numbers mean bad chance.
''you think a relationship is about give and take, and wouldn't be happy unless you were "even". This is a false assumption on how relationships work, and as you start to experience a real relationship you will see this. But so far, with no experience, you're building up these imaginary problems that don't really exist in real life.''
sorry but they do exist in real life, dont believe me?, easy proof, go and look in this site similar problems, i have seen plenty looking for problems like these. and i have experience helping friends with their relatonship problems as i said earlier, and i have dealt with the kinds of problems that you claim dont present themselves in real relationships, so i think is fair to say that give and take issues are a real problem among couples.
for everyone:
please read what i have said earlier, i have exlained a lot of times why a lot of the things you think about me are missasumptions. or at least just answers and try to consider that i dont mean wrong, and if you cant really believe it, well at least suppose i dont, but really i dont have a good reason to be lying about this, what i want is a good answers to my problem, so i need to present my problem as it is, if i want an answer to 2+2 im not going to ask for the answer to 4+4 would i?
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reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): why don't you stop posting here on this site and go pursue a real relationship since you say you've never really had one. Something more than your concerns about virginity are stopping you from doing that, so work on it. Work on yourself internally.
Going on a few dates and talking to people about relationships is not the same as having one. I'm sure you realize the difference between sex with a prostitute and sex with a person who actually wants to be with you in a relationship, you're not dumb obviously. prostitution is for people who objectify other people and who are too cowardly or too lazy or too whatever to have a real relationship which would include sex- don't put yourself into that situation. most women will never knowingly date someone who patronizes prostitutes so you will turn yourself into a would be liar.
Stop agonizing and obsessing and start living your life, as other people have said there are plenty of women who are still virgins at your age and above, so what is really stopping you. or is this just a troll post?
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male
reader, anonymous, writes (30 March 2012): Doc H here againOP- If you think YOU failed to explain yourself to everyone (and I happened to merely 'understand' you)- WRONG. It's the reverse. Me, LovelyLemon and Wisdom simply bothered to read what you wrote BEFORE placing judgement and few else did- hence why we offered the better advice here, rather than anger.Other people (as you have now discovered) simply read a few words and let their prejudices take over ('virgin-demanding men are evil controlling religious types who hate female sexuality'). The fact you actually explained yourself as otherwise- is simply their own problem for not seeing through their prejudices to bother reading is their own fault- not yours. They probably won't change their minds, and they are definitely not a majority in society. Everyone else just learns to shrug it off and ignore them.Also, a lot of other male virgins might tell you to hold on- but it may be to validate their own decision to stay as such. It is probably better to stay a virgin and look hard for one (Rather than jump straight into the prostitute)- but failing that- and you are missing out on forming relationships with non-virgins- there's really no point holding out.At least be thankful- most virgin men get misogynistic and blame the world, women, feminism blah blah- for their perceived incompatibilities- you acknowledge that it is simply a personal choice you must make- so you have a more mature attitude- if people don't actually notice- it's because they're idiots.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionyou say that im assuming things, but really you are assuming things about myself too, nowhere have i remember saying that i never had a date, i have had dates in fact.''When was the last time you actually went on a date with a girl?'' like a month ago or so, maybe a bit more, so dont assume that i dont try to know girls.and i know tons of girls too, and im friends with them, just because they arent virgins and im not looking for anything romantically with them, doesnt mean that i cant be nice to them or friendly.you are assuming that im terrible with women, well, that is not the case, i approach women too, and as i said before i also have female friends, maybe i could go out more, well i do go out but not that much, but when i do i dont have a problem being sociable and even comfortable to be around, a lot of the girls i know think that i have good values and we normally enjoy hanging out.so no, im not a whining about thingg i dont know or have experience with, maybe some of those things i really havent experienced, like a real relationship and the things that come with one, but im not ignorant to them either, a lot of my friends like to ask me about their relationship problems, and i even helped a female friend of mine and her current boyfriend get together(wich they are close to marriage now), so im not as ignorant about these things as everyone (well, most anyway) here likes to think.and i also know how hard is to find virgins because of my female friends say so too, they also tell me how unlikely it is to find someone without sexual experience, even the ones who are virgins too, say that(yes i know a few, but they have boyfriends or they arent my type, etc.).''It's the word "resent" that triggered a warning for me... as well as this.. " people have a stigma against men looking for virgins, they usually see them as sexist self centered jerks, because they immediately associate it with a sexist controlling man who his only interest is going around defiling women just to toss them aside afterwards"That's what I have always thought about men who hold virginity highly. I thought that when I was a virgin, I think that now I'm not a virgin, and nothing you have said here has changed my mind.''it offends me that you think im like that, im not, not even close, im not looking for girls just to delife them or something as trashy as that, it just proves you didnt read the whole thing, i have said tons of times that im looking for a real serious relationship. and is ok if that doesnt change your mind about them, i rather that hate every man that is looking for a virgin, even tough they arent like that, than taking chances to trust one that is a douchebag. the best scenario would be that you learn to separate them, and knowing when they are doing it for their values, and knowing when they are doing it just to claim virginity as trohpies, but obviously you dont want to see it like that, for you is either they are open minded and dont care if someone is a virgin or not, or if they do care about virginity they are just sexists pigs looking to defile women to fill their ego.''you'd rather have a prostitute you don't love, or a virgin you don't love... what seems low down in your priorities is love of any kind. For you virginity or the lack of it seems to be all that's in your mind. The majority of women that are not being paid, do need love in there somewhere.''i didnt say that, i said a lot of times that im looking for love too, just that im looking for virginity too, i wouldnt be with virgin if i didnt love her.''First you want a virgin woman, who is the same age as you, who actually is interested in a virgin man. She must want a guy who holds virginity as some sacred morality test. She shouldn't really be into religion. And she must think that your virginity or hers is something special. Since your not talking marriage, she must be happy to give her virginity to you without a wedding ring, and if things don't work out, she must be happy if you too break up.''im not particularily looking one as the same age as my, just that she is at least legal, ot that she is not that old from me. and i said that i would RATHER that she wasnt religious, but is she was, i could take it, not a dealbreaker, unless she tries to shove her belief of me. and im not saying that i need it to be before marriage, i could wait until marriage, but is not neccesary for me, i would only do it if my partner wants to wait.''You don't mention if she can be as ugly as a pitbull or as fat as a house. I guess as long as she's a virgin you'll be able to find her sexy and get an erection somehow. Somehow just because she's a virgin you and her will fall in love. In the meantime, any woman you meet, the most prettiest, the kindest, the funniest the richest, the million and one brilliant women you meet, you will throw them aside, because no matter if she's a bloody saint, if she aint a virgin, she aint good enough for you.''of course that i have other standards besides the virgin standard, of course i want to find her pretty and attractive, i just didnt mention that because finding them is not the problem, i am friends with women like that, im friend with nice, caring, pretty, and smart girls, the only reason why i havent made a move on them is because they have had sex before.''Virginity or the lack of it is your business and your business only. There is nobody to tell, nobody will know, not even the woman you are sleeping with. There no difference between a virgin man who knows a lot about sex and a promiscuous man who is a bad lover. Men don't bleed, men don't rip, your virginity is only something that affects you.'' oh so if it isnt physical it doesnt matter then?, only a girls virginity can have value because they have an hymen? i care about the emotional virginity, that is why i would not reject a girl if she was raped, she would still be a virgin because to me, because she wasnt willing and is not fai to reject her for something she didnt want to do. and of course i dont care to break a hymen, the girl could have broken it with exercise for all i know, i only want to be her first sexual relationship and that she is mine.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (29 March 2012):
This is what I don't get... Why are so many putting words in our mouths and having an argument with themselves?
"It is not true to say our sexual past does not effect who we are now"
Who said it didn't? Who are you arguing against? You say we are ridiculing the OP, but you aren't even answering the question he asked. None of us have debated whether or not a sexual past changes you, or whether or not he should accept non-virgins. That's not what's on the line here. The question is: should he continue to wait to see if he finds this non-virgin who he can build a meaningful relationship with, or should he stop waiting and go to the other extreme and be with a prostitute?
We're not debating whether prostitution is bad or wrong. Or whether people approved of it a decade ago or not. What people thought a decade ago is irrelevant. What is relevant here is todays situation alone.
And to summarize the points that have been made:
-you have a negative outlook on your future
-you haven't dated women, you just assume there are no virgins left, or very few if any
-you assume that the women you will date will probably lie to you and fake being virgins
-you assume that women also care about virginity of a man (most don't, and wouldn't see it as you "giving" them anything)
-you assume that you can't ask whether a woman is a virgin or not until some yet undefined period of time has gone by, and that this time is too long to wait, and you don't want to waste your time, or hers. So you just don't try getting to know women at all
-you also assume women are easy and willing to sleep with everyone as soon as they can, hence the idea that "every day a woman has sex for the first time" and hence you will be looking at less and less options...
-you don't know what your options are, you haven't been looking or asked
-you don't think you can find a virgin, so you're basically giving up because you are being negative
-you think a relationship is about give and take, and wouldn't be happy unless you were "even". This is a false assumption on how relationships work, and as you start to experience a real relationship you will see this. But so far, with no experience, you're building up these imaginary problems that don't really exist in real life.
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reader, JustHelpinAgain +, writes (29 March 2012):
Hey, older and experienced aunts and uncles, here we have the OP, a young guy, with a conundrum (sp!) about sex and virginity asking for help and all most of us do is load him with ridicule and sarcasm. Yes, we may mock his naivety, but the issue he raises is valid: how do you meet someone that has similar views/ feelings/values about physical relations.It is not true to say our sexual past does not effect who we are now, and in many ways. It influences our self confidence, our hope, and trust in the future. A history of sexual adventures, both good and bad makes us glib and sarcastic as can be seen in some of the replies below. Society still perpurtrates a value to virginity and a negative value to casual sex for a very fundamental reason: most of us are seeking a life partner and one of the above is good and one not. Fact of life.OP, your values are good, your ability to explain them less so. Have some confidence, you will meet the right person, It may be next week, or it may be 5 years, but it will be worth it. More of the world is like you than you realise, but you won't realise that from DC! The quest goes on, good luck.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): Going to a prostitute is just having a sexual past that some other people disapprove of. The only thing that sets it so far apart from having a sexual past outside of prostitution is that women are more put off by it. And women don't have the same difficulty getting easy meaningless sex like lots of average men do. (Yes I know lots of women don't believe that a men could ever have much difficulty getting laid. They are wrong, as almost any man will tell you. The most attractive and seductive men never have any problem getting laid. The rest of men still do.)Some people will probably bite head off for daring to say these politically incorrect things. But it's the truth. Prostitution is even legal in many places including Las Vegas in the USA. Virginity, prostitution, either way it's just a sexual history that your potential partner might disapprove of. Prostitution might be more disapproved-of than non-virginity but that's a new development these days. The situation was basically reversed until a couple decades ago. It's still reversed in much of the world. I'm not calling anything right or wrong, I am just pointing out how life really is.
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reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (29 March 2012):
 You find what you expect. You expect lying, people will accommodate you and lie. You expect the worse in people, people will oblige. You expect to have a lousy first sexual experience, it will be awful.
You don't have a plan. You have fears, which you feed with negative thoughts and irrational, though quite real to you, imaginary as they haven't happened, expectations. You expect a lying non-virgin sexually experienced woman is going to rob you of what you've been carefully guarding. None of this has happened, other than the guarding of the virginity.
Your mind, your ego, is having a field day, keeping you afraid and fearful and frozen in inaction and wild theories of how to 'solve' the 'problem' which hasn't actually presented itself.
When was the last time you actually went on a date with a girl?
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reader, chigirl +, writes (29 March 2012):
" i have more chances of finding a liar than a real virgin."
Here you go with the incredible negativity again. How are you more likely to find a liar than an honest person? You don't have statistical evidence to say that your chances are higher... so this is your negativity speaking. I don't think it is "usual" for a girl to lie about her first time. Not any more usual than it is for people to lie about other things... if you're an honest person you don't lie, simple as that. I fail to see why you look at women like they are more likely to lie to you than being honest with you....
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reader, chigirl +, writes (29 March 2012):
""unless she's been seeing a prostitute herself she can judge you all she wants." oh, so I shouldn't judge her for the choices she made, but she can judge me on mine? Sounds reasonable (sarcasm)"
You're not ignorant enough to not see the differences here, are you? Do you not see the difference in having a sexual past (or having no sexual past), and going to a prostitute?
Besides when did I ever tell you you can't judge her for her past? Hmm? I didn't. I didn't tell you you can't, but this response of yours just screams that you are letting your thoughts get in the way of the truth. I didn't tell you you can't judge women for their past. I didn't tell you you can't want to look for a virgin girlfriend, I didn't tell you you need to accept her past or yadda yadda. Did I? No. So don't put words in my mouth or imagine things that aren't there.
Yes darnit, the girl can judge you for your actions. People aren't holy divine beings you know, we all have standards and morals just like you. And having been with a prostitute breaks the moral code that most women have. We wouldn't respect that, nor would we want a boyfriend who has been with a prostitute. You can argue why we should until your face is blue, but it wont change a thing. So accept that this was just a fair warning to you: if you go to a prostitute then women will probably judge you for it. Whether you like it or not. Whether you judge them in return or not.
Judge a woman for her sexual past all you want, but all I know is that THAT won't ever land you in a happy relationship. You got to be with someone you don't judge, and who wont judge you. So before you make the mistake of sleeping with a prostitute, thereby lowering your chances even more of finding a girlfriend.. just think about it. Where will it take you in the long run, and will you really benefit from it?
I don't even know if it is legal in your country, in Norway it's illegal to buy sex.
"The real problem is that that is not something you can ask casually, and i would have to get to know girls for a long time before being able to ask, but, maybe she is not the kind of girl that discloses those things easily ( as it should be) then I would have wasted both our times, and would most likely hurt to leave her and she would hurt too."
You are right, you can't ask upfront. But you can be open about it from the start, you can let people know that you are a virgin and that you wish to share your first time with someone special. Don't tell them anything else, but broadcast that you are looking for something special and you are a virgin. Then women who are like-minded should come to you, knowing you want what they want too. Once you get talking to them it doesn't have to take more than a month of meeting and getting to know each other before you can ask the question.
But by the sounds of it, this is all theory for you still? You say that you "would most likely have wasted both our times". This makes me think you haven't even tried yet, have you? If you KNEW from experience then you'd say that you wasted both of yours time... But you write about it like this is yet an experience you haven't been through.
You got to do it!!! You can't just sit here and complain and give up when you haven't even started. You haven't wasted anyones time other than your own when you sit here and don't do a thing. You're not wasting time if you get to know a woman and then get to the point where you ask if she is a virgin too. That's called looking. And that exactly what you need to be doing. But you aren't. How then do you expect to find her if you aren't even looking?
Yes, every day women women have sex for the first time... and every day more women turn 18 and can legally have sex for their first time. And every day one guy gets to have sex for the first time too. You're so negative about all of this, everything you want is right there in front of your nose, but you aren't willing to look for it because you're so wrapped up in negativity.
Please... go out, start looking, and keep a positive mind and leave this negative energy in the past.
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reader, adamantine  +, writes (29 March 2012):
 I was a virgin at 20 too. I waited until I found someone I loved and cared about to have sex. He wasn't a virgin. Did I care? No. Does it bother me that he has been with women before me? Sometimes. My virginity was a gift to him.
Now, why would I choose to give away something so precious to someone who couldn't do the same for me? Simply because I don't keep strikes against people. I don't do something for someone, expecting them to do the equivalent for me in return. I do things for people because I love them. AND I don't project my own values onto other people either. It's good to know that not everyone is going to think or do the same things as you.
This mentality that you have just shows that you probably aren't emotionally ready for a relationship. Sometimes relationships involve sacrifice, and it's not healthy to always expect so much from other people. If you were to find a virgin, and say you did lose your virginity to her, I can tell you will probably still have other things you will nitpick about her past. How many guys did she kiss? How many people did she touch in an intimate way? That brings another thing to mind... what if she had done everything except sex?? Would the images of her going down on another guy haunt you forever?
Oh but hang on, she is technically a virgin still though, right? What if she had never, ever kissed a guy, but she still had a very high sex drive which in turn gave her a dirty mind and she has these thoughts about all the guys she would sleep with but is too shy to. She constantly fantasises about having threesomes etc, but is too shy to even make a first move on anyone. Would you hold her own thoughts against her too?
You are putting far too much weight on virginity.
Respect and love a person for who they are, not what they are.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (29 March 2012):
It's the word "resent" that triggered a warning for me... as well as this.. " people have a stigma against men looking for virgins, they usually see them as sexist self centered jerks, because they immediately associate it with a sexist controlling man who his only interest is going around defiling women just to toss them aside afterwards"
That's what I have always thought about men who hold virginity highly. I thought that when I was a virgin, I think that now I'm not a virgin, and nothing you have said here has changed my mind.
If you were talking about marriage, then maybe I might think differently. But your talking about sleeping with a virgin, and the word marriage hasn't left your lips. Many virgin women at your age are expecting marriage before sex.
Then you talk about "throwing your virginity away like trash".. again key words, "trash" and sex don't really go together, it indicates problematic views to women and sex.
Then you talk about prostitutes... so again "All-or Nothing", you'd rather have a prostitute you don't love, or a virgin you don't love... what seems low down in your priorities is love of any kind. For you virginity or the lack of it seems to be all that's in your mind. The majority of women that are not being paid, do need love in there somewhere.
We can't really help you. Yes it's possible to find the woman you want. But you and only you have made your search very difficult.
First you want a virgin woman, who is the same age as you, who actually is interested in a virgin man. She must want a guy who holds virginity as some sacred morality test. She shouldn't really be into religion. And she must think that your virginity or hers is something special. Since your not talking marriage, she must be happy to give her virginity to you without a wedding ring, and if things don't work out, she must be happy if you too break up.
You don't mention if she can be as ugly as a pitbull or as fat as a house. I guess as long as she's a virgin you'll be able to find her sexy and get an erection somehow. Somehow just because she's a virgin you and her will fall in love. In the meantime, any woman you meet, the most prettiest, the kindest, the funniest the richest, the million and one brilliant women you meet, you will throw them aside, because no matter if she's a bloody saint, if she aint a virgin, she aint good enough for you.
We aunts don't like to recommend you use prostitutes. Because many men have bad experiences with them... You don't know what sex is, but somehow you think that meaningless sex that you buy is gonna teach you anything. Sex with a prostitute is the coldest loneliest thing there is. You could have picked yourself a good woman, who might actually like you and your penis. But instead due to your reverence for your virginity you'd rather go to bed with a woman who is watching the clock all the time you are trying to "get off" and thinking "Boy this guy is heavy, useless, taking to long, and I want my money as quick as I can get it." Also many women do not like men who use prostitutes and that might spoil any future relationships that you have.
Virginity or the lack of it is your business and your business only. There is nobody to tell, nobody will know, not even the woman you are sleeping with. There no difference between a virgin man who knows a lot about sex and a promiscuous man who is a bad lover. Men don't bleed, men don't rip, your virginity is only something that affects you.
You want a woman with your values. Then as you say you can't look in church, but she will be the girl at the nightclub having a one night stand with some guy she hates, because she's spent all her life looking for a virgin man, but all of them have tossed their virginity away "like trash" on some old prostitute because they got so bored of waiting. And yes, many virgin girls do this too, not because they are waiting for some virgin man, but because they are looking for someone who knows how to love, will accept them without judgement, who wants to get married, and sees them as more than a virginity barrier walking on legs.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): Doc H (anonymous male) here
Its a pleasure OP
But forget about understanding from others about this- its not something many live with- and many people (most on dating advice sites) are the types that feel threatened by this viewpoint rather than sympathetic. Just the way it is- you will have to decide for yourself what YOU need to do for yourself and forget everyone else.
Just remember- the thorough final look around for a virgin first (although it sounds like more waiting) IS worth it- even if its just two weeks- try dating sites, getting to know people- found plenty of great girlfriends both of these ways- if its going nowhere- just go for the prostitute so you can move on with life.
Also, if casual sex is something you feel is being sacrificed (you desired it- but not as much as waiting for someone) then a prostitute is probably a good idea.
One last thing for now- obviously the prostitute won't 'cure' anything- it's a baby step in the door- that's it, but it gets a LOT of baggage out of the way. However, being shy or pedantic about 'getting it right' with girls doesn't go away. You simply have to stop doing these by yourself- and the simplest way to successfully approach girls is to NOT WORRY about how to successfully approach girls- you find merely relaxing alone instantly changes other people's perceptions of you. Something that took me a fair while after losing my virginity to find out.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionanother important point i forgot to say is that, the only instance where i would not mind if the girl is not a virgin is only, and ONLY if she was raped, because it would not be fair for her, she didnt have control about that and wasnt her choice, is terrible when you pay the consequences for something you didnt choose.
but im talking about real rape victims, not the usual girls who feel ashamed of losing her virginity and doesnt want people to think she is a slut and she just makes up the rape or exaggerates a past sexual encounter to make it seem like one. i dread to find one of these, my worst fear is finding a girl who is lying about her first time, and actually believing her and being deceived, and that fear can be justified, as i have more chances of finding a liar than a real virgin.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthis update is a response to Doc H, i didnt see his last answer when i put up my last update.
''Your approach is indeed a constructive way to jump from being a virgin- to a person with less chance of bringing Retroactive Jealousy in a relationship- and a bit more compatibility with other non-virgins too. '' spot on!, that is one of te things i have trouble explaining.
''Just remember a few things though- after which you won't be a virgin and should be honest and upfront if you DO meet a virgin later in life (they might not mind as much as some others do- though you should be understanding if they did or wanted ways to get 'compatible' with you)- and also note that while you won't be weighed down by your virginity as an obstacle, you may still have a gap between experiences between yourself and a person with many partners (though I was satisfied enough that numbers didn't bug me much- but everyone's needs are different)''
yea i know, i know that if i were to lose my virginity and later i found a virgin, then it would be fair to let her know that i wouldnt be a virgin, that is fair, and i wouldnt like that a girl lied to me about that(and lest face it, i have more chances to find a girl that lies about it, than to find a real virgin), and i would let her decide if that was a dealbreaker for her.
''And ignore the criticisms- (especially when many of them clearly didn't bother reading the whole thing or try to understand your views).
Ironically, they are themselves judging YOU on your 'past' (present) and resent YOU trying to 'change for the better'.
Strangely they've made not one reason why the prostitute is a bad idea- it's a good idea, and a good start to getting a sex-life given your views on virginity.''
as i said, that criticism comes with wanting a virgin, no scratch that, that comes with a MAN wanting a virgin girl, no one has anything against a woman looking for a virgin, is usually the guy who gives a bad impression. i bet that if i was looking for something else and more shallow like a certain hair color, or height; their answers would be a lot more understanding, but despite that i still appreciate their answers and hindsight, in their own way they are being helpful too, even the ones who criticize me. but yea yout response makes me feel better, at least i know that there is someone who is able to see this issue like i see it.
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reader, JustHelpinAgain +, writes (29 March 2012):
OP, your preferences, values, beliefs, wharever you call them are valid and at your age I shared most of them, still do to a certain extent. Somewhere you said you can't change them, which is also ok, so then how does using a prostitute fit in?
Your values are from a time when we often married the first person we have sex with. And there was some merit to that as people who had many sex partners statistically are less likely to sustain being a life partner. So when you've found your virgin what is next? now there are two less virgins in the world? do you look for another virgin? a bit unfair maybe? do you look for a oner, or a twoer, etc??
Rather than using virginity as your benchmark you would be better off learning to get to know and understand the real people you meet. When you meet the right person, which you will, it won't matter if either of you are virgins or not.
But if your values are causing you so much grief then a prostitute will definitely help, I know several guys that did this! But choose a nice prostitue, if you can! good luck.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTo Miamine:I don't know why you think I sound dangerous, unstable and dangerous against women, I haven't said that I have a grudge with women that are sexually active, I dont see them as dirty or morally wrong. If I reject them is because of a preference I have, or better put, a condition, I'm sure you have standards for men too, and I don't think you have something against them, everyone has their preferences, mine just happens to be very important to me, so if I won't date them doesn't mean I think less of them.To chigirl and CindyCares:I know that I got myself into this, and that everyone has trubles finding their special someone, ok, I accept that, but one thing that makes it specially hard( and is a big one, I SHOULD have brought it up earlier) is that people have a stigma against men looking for virgins, they usually see them as sexist self centered jerks, because they immediately associate it with a sexist controlling man who his only interest is going around defiling women just to toss them aside afterwards. When people realize that I'm looking for a virgin they put me in the same category as those stereotypes, they couldn't care less if I'm a virgin too looking to fall in love with a girl and share our first time together, no, they just know that for them is not important and they are sure that I shouldn't care if someone is a virgin or not. "unless she's been seeing a prostitute herself she can judge you all she wants." oh, so I shouldn't judge her for the choices she made, but she can judge me on mine? Sounds reasonable (sarcasm). By that logic then unless she has stayed a virgin, then I can judge her all I want?And I'm not necessarily looking for a religious woman, as I'm not religious myself and I would prefer that she wasn't either, but it is hard to find non religious virgins even more so, so if i happen to fall for a religious woman and she accepts my beliefs (or lack of them) then I would accept hers.The real problem is that that is not something you can ask casually, and i would have to get to know girls for a long time before being able to ask, but, maybe she is not the kind of girl that discloses those things easily ( as it should be) then I would have wasted both our times, and would most likely hurt to leave her and she would hurt too. But If I give my virginity to her and she isn't one then it would have been for nothing.To anonymous male:Is good to see that you understand my frustration, and you were very helpful, even only a little moral support of someone who understands my problem helps.Oh and this is not because I'm horny or something and only interested in having sex, but is just my desperation knowing that the older I get the harder my chances, is like each day that passes is a day that even more girls are having their first time.
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reader, anonymous, writes (29 March 2012): Doc H again-OP, again- Your approach is indeed a constructive way to jump from being a virgin- to a person with less chance of bringing Retroactive Jealousy in a relationship- and a bit more compatibility with other non-virgins too. If you honestly can't find a virgin (and really LOOK for one- don't assume)- then definitely the prostitute is a good idea (again, I know exactly what I'm talking about).Just remember a few things though- after which you won't be a virgin and should be honest and upfront if you DO meet a virgin later in life (they might not mind as much as some others do- though you should be understanding if they did or wanted ways to get 'compatible' with you)- and also note that while you won't be weighed down by your virginity as an obstacle, you may still have a gap between experiences between yourself and a person with many partners (though I was satisfied enough that numbers didn't bug me much- but everyone's needs are different)And ignore the criticisms- (especially when many of them clearly didn't bother reading the whole thing or try to understand your views). Ironically, they are themselves judging YOU on your 'past' (present) and resent YOU trying to 'change for the better'. Strangely they've made not one reason why the prostitute is a bad idea- it's a good idea, and a good start to getting a sex-life given your views on virginity.
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reader, CindyCares  +, writes (28 March 2012):
 What you got, from your behaviour, is that you gave witness of your values ( or the values you say you have ) with you own life. You believed in something and you acted accordingly,- exactly as it is supposed to be.
Values are values, not means to get sex, riches, popularity, an easy life. If you believe that something is right, you just believe it, regardless whether it makes your life easier or more difficult. It's very convenient to get all preachy about your " values " - until when they require no sacrifices, or when they aren't too umcomfortable. It 's like , I don't know, being a staunch Communist... but only if the rich people in town do not give you weird looks, and they still keep inviting you to the fancy parties in their mansions !
Make up your mind, OP:
Virginity is either sacred and essential, or is not.
Either being a virgin and offering yourself only to another virgin, is something spiritually and morally relevant to you, in which case you'll follow your path regardless of what other guys may do , get and enjoy.
Or, it's not anymore ( which is fine, people may change their believes in time ). But if virginity is not relevant to you anymore, then all your talks of " being even " and " she gets something special, I don't get anything special " become authomatically totally silly .
Virginity is not sacred for you anymore, neither is for the girl, - then you can take it as it comes, no need for this cerebral , convoluted plots, the hooker, the one night stand.... as if you were preparing to some weird initiation ceremony. Sex is something simple, human, natural: Meet girl, like girl, make love with girl.
No need for so much mental wanking.
If you can wait until you find someone you love and she loves you back, yes it's better, in the sense that's more romantic and makes for more emotion and better memories, if you can't wait because you are too horny and frustrated and want to be like all the other guys, that's cool too, your choice.
But no need for all these complicated calculations, what she gets, what I get, she gets something special, I get something normal... Jeeez ! If you get into this kind of mind trips, you'll make a lousy lover , let me tell you. Love is generous , physically, mentally, and emotionally, is not calculus or mechanical engineering.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2012): I know exactly what you are going through and acted on it.I have actually made that very choice you have- and to top it off, for the same reason.When I was younger, I wanted to save my virginity for another virgin, felt uncomfortable with 'giving' it to a non-virgin, as I felt I was 'giving' something I sacrificed for that I could never experience in return- plus like you I perceived it would put a strain on a serious relationship I might start with a non-virgin (I literally saw my own words in your post).Basically, a kind of 'morals withdrawal', would you say? So, thinking I was the last non-Christian virgin over 21 years of age, I went and got a prostitute myself (a classy, legal one of course- a very supporting lady I might add). I'll tell you two things.1- the experience definitely helped me feel better about myself and a bit more 'normal' and compatible than I did before. You may still have LESS experience than most non-virgins, but your comfort IS that tiny bit higher- just don't expect to feel instantly the 'same' as everyone else if numbers of partners is also a factor for you;2- it turned out quite a few people (including girls) I knew at university actually WERE virgins after all.SO- I would advise you- FIRST, before you get a prostitute, actually CHECK to see if there are any compatible virgins you'd like to date- online dating, or get to know people at events you enjoy (interests? recreational clubs?)- even girls you'd never think virgins MIGHT turn out to be such- most times they'd have no reason to lie- most times ;)If its not looking good, THEN weigh up whether it is more important to find a virgin OR be compatible with all the non-virgins (especially if you have your eye on someone already)! If you still want compatibility with a non-virgin, THEN I'd recommend a prostitute- but DO make sure she's from a legal, nicer place and don't pay cheap (I can't speak for your country- but in Australia prostitutes in legal classier premises are much happier, safer, more willing with their jobs, and are very sympathetic to virgins (a large portion of their visitors). Don't go cheap and get someone from the street- bad you, bad for her.Hope this helps- but generally, take a stronger look for virgins around you first- certainly neither are further out of your comfort zone than the either!Doc H
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (28 March 2012):
It's all delusionary, ego-generated drama over imaginary slights and imaginary girls. The mind has been working overtime on "solving" a "problem" that exists only in the mind, that was in fact created by the mind.
Stop thinking so much. Inner peace will show up then. So might a real actual virgin.
Tisha out. :)
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reader, chigirl +, writes (28 March 2012):
" but if she had sex before i dont know why should she get angry about it,if she did it before i dont think she has the right to complain about my experience then."
She wouldn't have a right to complain about you having a sexual experience, but unless she's been seeing a prostitute herself she can judge you all she wants. Anyway, whether you think it is fair or not the woman can choose to not date you simply because you have been with a prostitute before. It doesn't really matter if you think she is justified in doing so or not.
There's a big difference between willing sex between two partners, and having been with a prostitute or otherwise paid for sex. There's also a big difference in dating a woman with a sexual past, and dating a woman who used to sell her body for sex. Wouldn't you agree? The buyer of sex is just as sinful as the one selling, in my book. Or even more sinful, as the woman selling her body rarely has another choice.
"i know it sounds terrible that i would reject someone who would appreciate it just because she is not a virgin, but is important to me, she may share some of my values, but if she doesnt offer the same then i couldnt date her"
I don't think it sounds so terrible actually. You have every right to determine what is important to you, and no one has a right to judge you for that. However, the problem here is that you are complaining about it. You made this choice because it was important to you. Well then you need to stick to it. None of us are your moral guide in the world, only you are. If this is important to you, and you've stuck to it for your reasons, then you can not complain about the situation you have put yourself in. Because the world isn't unfair, you CHOSE this situation for yourself to be in.
Although I must stress again that your "problem" isn't really a problem as much as an imaginary problem. You knew you'd have to wait long to find that special person you are looking for. Because you are looking for a very specific thing. So you have to be patient. Or, alternatively, drop all your ideals. That choice is up to you. But again, it is a CHOICE you make, NOT something that has been unfairly put on you. You chose to be where you are, thus you do not have a right to complain about it.
I have a standard for men I date/will enter a relationship with as well. Sure, I rule out a ton of probably great guys with my standard too, not at all unlike yourself. But I also know that when I have a specific standard I'll have to rule out so many people, and the pool of dateable people for me WILL be smaller. It will automatically take longer to find someone. Maybe you get lucky and meet someone right away. But really, you're in no different position than the majority of people your age. People without much standards or conditions are facing the EXACT same predicament as you: it is difficult to find that one special person!
You're not facing a more difficult situation than anyone else. Especially young men and women are finding it hard to be single and not having had a boyfriend or girlfriend yet at 20-25. But it is NORMAL. You might have a harder time at it that others, but there are still tons of people who are facing the exact same problem as you. So you're not that special, you're not unique in your situation, and the world hasn't turned against you in any way. It's just life. This is how it is. It isn't always easy!
" i just want that the benefit i did for my partner is done for me too, is that to much to ask? i just cant find it fair if it isnt like that."
It's not too much to ask. But it doesn't sound like going to a prostitute is for you then, does it? Don't contradict yourself. That's all I ask of you. Either you stick to your ideals, or you drop them all completely and never look back with regret, even if you happen to meet a virgin to love later in life.
You must realize, if you want a loving and lasting relationship with another virgin you are probably looking at religious women who save themselves for marriage, meaning marriage must be in your path. Sex might also be many many years away from now, as you'll first need to find that woman, then build up a relationship with her, and then possibly marry her, and THEN maybe have sex with her. And that'll also mean you probably will have just that one woman for the rest of your life. I'm saying this to make you think a little further, and think about not only what you want, but also about what a future virgin girlfriend would want. She's likely going to be saving herself for marriage... So that leaves you with marrying her.
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reader, Miamine +, writes (28 March 2012):
This is "All-or-Nothing" type thinking, and it is a disaster in sex or relationships, people with this type of thinking can suffer obsession and compulsions even if they find the perfect virgin woman. I think you would benefit with a short course of CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) Guys that talk like you, write into Dear Cupid, complaining that their virgin wife of 30years is a whore who kissed a guy when she was 18.You make so many assumptions. You assume that a virgin woman would want a virgin man, who knows less than she does and would probably hurt her or fail to consummate. You assume that you'll be able to have sex with a prostitute, when some virgin guys are so worked up they either back out or fail to penetrate. You don't talk about sex as a love thing, it's seems more to be about "what you are owed" or getting "revenge" on some woman you don't even know.Right now to most women, whether they are prostitutes, virgins are women who have had a few sexual experiences you don't sound very attractive. You sound bitter and dangerous, you don't sound like a man who likes women, you sound like someone who would like to hurt them, and that's not attractive to anyone.I can't even tell you to get a prostitute, because you don't sound like you will treat her decently. You keep your virginity for you, most women aren't intrested in a guys virginity. That's what you choose to do. Now please stop being angry with women because they choose to live their life differently.If you want to find a virgin woman who thinks about sex in way you do, then go to find a church, and get yourself a virgin who wants to wait until marriage. Sex is supposed to be about fun and love, not anger, bitterness and revenge. At the moment, I suspect your options are limited, and no girls are interested in what you are currently offering. It's not your virginity that's the problem here, it's your state of mind about sex and women.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthis update is mainly to a response to cindycares.
i can assure you that im not lying, or ''bullshitting you'' as you call it, but if you dont believe me fine, i wont be trying to convince you otherwise, im just saying things like they are for me.
as i said beofre, then yes, maybe the prostitute option is a bit too much, so maybe considering a one night stand would be better, people do it all the time, and as someone else said it saves me money too. dont get too upset about me promoting those kinds of things, i can get lose it just fine with someone who consents and is happy to do it.
and im not doing these because of some 'insecurities', i know that i would probably will not be great in my first time, but thats normal, after all is a first time, and sexual skill can be gained fast, so no is not about a stupid little issue like 'maybe she has seen bigger dicks', i like average breast size, and that doesnt mean i would turn down someone if they had a lower or higher breast size than i prefer, i guess is something like that too for women.
and i dont know who are you to say that im unethical, these decitions i took them believing that it was the best choice i could take, both for me and what i considered ethical and just. how could i have known that this would cause such a turmoil within me in the future?. when i was talking about meaningless sex with someone else i wasnt saying that i dont think of them as a normal human being, so dont ut words in my mouth, what i meant to say is that we would be strangers, no emotional attachment, no feelings involved, no nothing, just a way to get rid of a choice that didnt pay off.
and what do you suggest?, what do you expect me to do?, to just give up my life long beliefs just to acomodate what values everyone else is trying to put upon me? i bet that you are going to say to just look for love, ok, but that doesnt change the fact that i restrain myself for nothing then. i could have been out there in my teens being in meaningless flings like everyone else was doing, it would have been a mistake, but i would have learned from my mistakes, and i would just be like everyone else saying that it was in the past, and that it shouldnt matter blah blah blah.
what i mean to say is that i wasnt out there being reckless like everyone my age seemed to be doing, and everyone commended me for it, but what good did it do?, what did i get?, i did what i tough was right, i didnt rush to a shallow loveless relationship, but so what? everyone else that had those flings now is out there, having learned from it, getting second chances like it didnt happen, so what was the point?, im the one who didnt do anything holding to some values that didnt fullfil me, and the only good thing i get is other people telling me 'good job for not making those mistakes, you were smarter', i was meant to feel fulfilled for doing what i tough was right, and im not, im more frustrated than ever, feeling how i lost my time holding to my values expecting something that it didnt happen. if you have a good solution for that then i would like to hear it.
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reader, CindyCares +, writes (28 March 2012):
Op, may I be blunt ?...I don't believe you, either you are bullshitting us, or you are a very confused young man with a very elastic ethic.
I mean, this virginity thing and why your first has to be a virgin and share your values...WHAT values ? You say that your virginity is so sacred, and precious, and important to you that you only would " offer " it to a very special person blah blah blah....and you even THINK losing to a prostitute, of all people ? You are so sanctimonious and holier-than-thou.... and you would do something so morally debatable as considering sex a commercial commodity than can be purchased with money - but wasn't it supposed to be almost sacred for you ?! And you are considering USING a person as a mean to your selfish ends - it does not matter if the person is willing, it's still morally questionable that YOU wish to do it, and btw how do they know she is willing ? In don't know about your country, in mine there are thousands of prostitues from Albania and Rumenia, or very poor African countries, who are BOUGHT and imported for prostitution, and reduced to a state of semi-slavery. They are not particularly " willing " to sell their bodies, ( and anyway the mafias who imported them get to keeep 90 % of the money ) , it's just if they don't they get savagely beaten up, or disfigured , or threatened with terrible consequences for their family at home. Oh sure, there are high -end free entrepeneurs too, - who very often do that to support their drugs addiction.
I don't think such a highly moral young man would want to actively , personally contribute to perpetuating this kind of scenario.
So, I can't believe it's a moral issue, and also seeing as you are OCDing over something that for most people is clean, simple, natural ( and, why not, loving ) I guess this is just a cover up for some neurotic insecurities and sense of inadequacy. You know , yout typical scenario " what if she has seen bigger dicks than mine, what if the previous guys were better than me in bed " or stuff like that. Very common, but at least the other guys have the honesty to say it !
Also, your focus with " fairness " and " being even " as previous sexual experiences ,- which normally is the last of your worries when you are in love, for the simple reason that when you are really in love ,it's a whole new chapter, everything starts from TODAY, - suggests me that you know you'd be suffering from some petty,ego fuelled RJ jealousy , and you are tryng to prevent that by being "even ", (i.e. a non-virgin ), yet keeping in your own eyes,your "purity " and " high moral standards " by losing your V- card to a prostitute , who does not really count , because , after all, she 's not even like a normal human being, right ?
Talk about keeping your cake and eating it too !
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthis update is in response to chigirl, because i didnt take her last response into account in my last updateim not saying that she would complain about me not being a virgin, im saying that she may complain that i would have done it with a prostitute, because a lot of women dont like that, but if she had sex before i dont know why should she get angry about it,if she did it before i dont think she has the right to complain about my experience then.as i covered in my last update, i know that i couldnt have had a serious relationship as a teenager, that is why i didnt get one, i knew it wouldnt be serious, but i also failed to see how unlikely was to be able to find virgins in the future.i know that the important thing is that i find someone who appreciates it my virginity as i aprecciate it, and if she has those values then maybe she is a virgin too, but even just finding those values is not that easy, but i do know women who would appreciate it, because they think is sweet that i waited for someone special, and that i wouldnt have baggage or STDs, bu they arent virgins either, so i wouldnt consider them.i know that i in fact should and could find(because i already know some)girls who could appreciate my virginity, and i know i could find a girl that was a virgin but didnt value it, but i would date neither of them, because both would lack what im looking for and what i saved myself for. the one who appreciates it but isnt one would not be able to give me the same, and the one who is a virgin but doesnt value it, then i would not date her because we dont share the same values, so yea i have in mind that i could find either of those types.i know it sounds terrible that i would reject someone who would appreciate it just because she is not a virgin, but is important to me, she may share some of my values, but if she doesnt offer the same then i couldnt date her. i do want to make her feel special, but i want to feel special too knowing that i was her first, is that too much to ask? i did it for her, is it wrong that i expect it from her? and i know that if i love her then it would mean a lot, but so would mean for her AND she would get the benefit of being my first too(im considering that she cares) i just want that the benefit i did for my partner is done for me too, is that to much to ask? i just cant find it fair if it isnt like that.
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reader, anonymous, writes (28 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questioni DO care about my virginity, that is the reason why i still have it, had wanted i could have just lost it to some casual fling or something, but i wanted to have a serious relationship, AND lose it to a virgin, i obviously cant have a serious relationship with a one night stand or a fling.is kind of a reverse thing i think, when i was younger and most people my age were virgins, it was almost impossible to get a serious relationship, and now that im older and a serious relationship is more likely than before, virginity is scarse, i guess i didnt think this trough at the time, i didnt know that this would become so hard, i guess im not so lucky, it seems like the two avoid each other.ok, maybe a prostitute or an escort wouldnt be the best idea, maybe a one night stand perhaps?, but still, the flaw with this plan is that if i were to lose it and if for some miracle i actually get a virgin girlfriend later then this would come back to bite me in the butt, what a problem, damned if i do, damned if i dont.so i can lose it to someone in a casual encounter and live with the tough of having lost it in a way i didnt intend and maybe in the future turn off women who think of those causal encounters as disgusting, or i could find a good and dont care about it, but i will have to live with the knowledge that i gave her more than she gave me, and would probably resent both of us for it as long and the relationship lastsi know that i may be overreacting for something that it hasnt happened yet, but i know a lot of girls, and i know that a lot of them have been in commited relationships and most likely already had sex, at their age is not uncommon, in fact is the norm, and most of them dont have a problem and see nothing wrong with it, im not saying that it is, but obviously they wont have a problem with having sexual relationships, so i dont see why they would think that they should wait. and i have liked a ton of girls and i have been interested in them, but later i get to know that they already had sexual relationships, so i think is not an implausible assumption that i will likely wont find a virgin.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (27 March 2012):
" and if they do care about it, and they arent one either, then they cant complain, because if they arent either i dont see why should they complain."
Thats just the thing.. they aren't complaining. No one is complaining. No woman ever complained that her boyfriend wasn't a virgin, at least none I know of. You are the ONLY ONE who is complaining about how some imaginary girlfriend isn't going to be able to give you anything back. She's not going to complain, you are.
If you had a relationship as a teenager then that relationship likely wouldn't be meaningful or lasting at all. If a lasting relationship matters to you, one that is special and meaningful, then you probably couldn't have had that at a younger age. So don't be so full of doom and self pitying. It wouldn't have worked as a teenager. Now you are only beginning to be old enough to have a real relationship, and there ARE women who are virgins out there at your age.
Your theory is that young girls are virgins only for a short period of time, so when you didn't get one while you were a teenager you aren't likely to find one now. Why? You want to be with someone who also thinks virginity matters. You want to be with someone who appreciates that you waited for her. Now why then do you assume that this woman would have sex as a teenager with the first and best that came along? You are looking for a woman with similar values as you, and that woman is probably still waiting, just like you are. I don't know why you assume that all women run off and have sex while they are teenagers.
It wouldn't have done you any good if you as a teenager had sex for the first time with another virgin if you didn't mean anything to her, would it? If she didn't care and if she dumped you the very next day because she didn't really like you. Then it'd be no different from that prostitute you are considering.
If your future partner doesn't put value on your virginity then you might as well have gone to that prostitute. Because then your first time is meaningless. But you want your first time to MEAN something. You want it to make a woman feel special. Then you need to find a woman who will find it special, and to whom it WILL mean something. And that woman isn't necessarily going to be a virgin... but isn't the most important thing here that she VALUES you? What good does it do you to have sex for the first time with another virgin if she DOESN'T value you, or her own virginity? What if you suddenly run into a woman who you don't know, and who doesn't care about you, but she wants to lose her virginity because she is tired of being a virgin. Would you be okay going to bed with her knowing she is just using you as a means to get laid and get it over with? Knowing that she doesn't value you or your virginity, and to her it wouldn't make a difference wether you are a virgin or not?
Make up your mind on what is important here. There mere virginity, as a matter of fact. Or the meaning behind it. Is it important to you that your future partner shares your values and shares the feeling that the first time is special? Or is it not important as long as you get to take her virginity?
Would YOU feel okay if you had seen a prostitute, and then found a virgin? Would you have been okay being with her, and would YOU value her virginity then even if you are not a virgin yourself? Or would you tell her she should find someone who is also a virgin for her first time?
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reader, person12345 +, writes (27 March 2012):
 Tisha and Chigirl are dead on, you are already finding a way to punish someone you've never met for a sexual past that you don't even know about yet.
You are treating virginity like it's some kind of physical object and only placing value on how it impacts the other person, but you don't even care about it for yourself. If it is so meaningless to for you to lose your virginity, then how can it suddenly possess so much value when someone else loses theirs or takes yours? Do you really want to look back on your first time and remember it as full of spite and anger and revenge for something that hasn't even happened?
Also, do not have "sex" with a prostituted woman. 92% of them hate it and desperately want out. Among many prostituted women they call it pay per rape. You're having sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you, so how else can it really be classified? 70-90% of prostituted women have experienced sexual abuse prior to entering prostitution, and the average age they enter is 13. And for any women you meet in the future, knowing you had sex with a prostitute will be a HUGE turn off because it shows someone who doesn't have respect for women. It's just a terrible idea overall.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionof course im not looking for a virgin just to have sex!, i want a real deep relationship too, someone who i can relate to and have good moments, and be able to experience strong feelings for someone, im not looking to just get laid!.
the reason that i bring only the sex is because that part is where my issue is: i know i can probably find a good girl to be with, but i also saved my virginity for someone virgin as well(which is very important for me) and i know that is unlikely that at my age i get that.
i know that i will feel bad for losing my virginity in such a way, because it goes against everything i wanted for my first time, but if i have to deal with the tough that she isnt my first, then i think is fair that she alse has to deal with the fact that she would not be my first either.
as chigilr said, i know that im talking like if everyone valued virginity and maybe for them it doesn matter one bit, and may not even care if i saved myself for her, ok, but i find that even if thats the case then if i lose my virginity it wont matter to me anyway, and if they do care about it, and they arent one either, then they cant complain, because if they arent either i dont see why should they complain.
i know that sometimes is not about give and take, but i dont find that fair, i dont like how in a relationship that is supposed to be about partnership, i have to get the short end of the stick!
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reader, chigirl +, writes (27 March 2012):
Oh, I didn't read your update at first.
"if i lose it to a hooker i know that it would mean nothing, but thats the point, she would not feel special," You base your theory and everything on some false assumptions. You think that because YOU value virginity everyone else will. You are right, an escort might not feel special at all to be your first. She might laugh though. But she wont feel special.
However, why would you NOT want a woman you love to feel special? Why is this all about give and take? Why are you not interested in giving for the sake of giving? If it matters to you, then you should be happy if you can make a woman feel special by her being your first.
But, most guys don't think like you. Most guys do not think that their first time is special. And tons of girls don't think a guys first time is special either. Many don't think a womans first time is special either for that sake! You do, but just because you do doesn't mean everyone else does.
I've had 3 virgins. I do not feel particularly special because of that. The first 2 virgins didn't treat their own virginity as anything special, so why should I? It didn't make me feel special at all, it was just sex.
The third virgin I had, well he made me feel special. But I loved him. And I would have felt special even if he hadn't been a virgin. Because the first time was just... poof, gone, done, over with. Nothing special. But the rest of the times, and the love we shared, and the relationship we had... now THAT is what made it special.
I'm saying this just to bring up an important point. That your view is flawed. Like I said in the first post, if I was a virgin I would NOT feel like dating you. Because you would NOT make me feel special or loved, or wanted for who I was. I'd think you were only interested in my virginity, and not in me as a person. And that wouldn't make me feel special at all, it'd make me feel quite worthless to be honest.
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reader, chigirl +, writes (27 March 2012):
"I wanted to lose my virginity to another virgin, but they are hard to find. Should I use a prostitute instead?"
From one extreme to the other? Why the need to lower yourself to the extremes. If you can't find a virgin then why revert to a prostitute of all things?? Why not find a woman who has had sex just one time before instead? Or a woman with only one or two previous partners?
Anyway, asking someone about their sexual status is a personal question, you'll need to get to know the woman well before you can ask these things.
"I don't want to give my future girl something that she can't give me, and if she lost it already, then I don't see why I should not." Of course you can have sex before you get with your future girl. But sex and virginity isn't about getting even. If you have sex with a woman you love for your first time then that is also something you give YOURSELF. Why rob yourself of the opportunity to share your first time with someone you love and care about, and who also cares about you? Why punish yourself with going to a prostitute who does not care about you and is only interested in your money? I fail to see why that is logical.
If you go to a prostitute then you are not getting "even" with any future girlfriend. Because any future girlfriend didn't go see a prostitute for her first time. And, it serves you no purpose. You are only taking something that is precious to you and throwing it away. You'll just end up hurting yourself by lowering yourself and your body to have your first time with a prostitute.
"and with that part of my values gone I should not have a problem with it, because I wouldn't be a virgin either."
Are you sure? When you have all this meaning added to it, are you sure that you will not live your life in regret and being upset about having gone to a prostitute? Well, at least save yourself the money and have a one night stand or a fling, or have sex with a friend who might actually take care of you and make you feel comfortable. Rather than be with a prostitute.
In the end though I think it comes down to this: how long are you willing to search before you give up? And what is your end goal when it comes to dating? Do you want a woman who you can have sex with, and that's it? Or do you want to find a woman you can marry and have a family with? Why do you date, and what is your end goal? As of now, it seems your end goal is just to get laid. Which might be one of the reasons why you are not successful in finding a woman.
Anyway, you aren't dead yet, and you are still young. There's still every chance that you will find a woman who is also a virgin and who you can be with. But, if I was a virgin woman I wouldn't date you. You know why? Because you are only interested in a virgin woman because you want to have sex with her. And all the virgin women I know of stay virgin because they want to save themselves for someone they love, or someone they will marry. And if all you want is sex to "get over it" and lose your virginity.. then I wouldn't want to date you. Most older virgin women are virgins by choice, because they want sex only when the relationship becomes serious. If you are not interested in the PERSON and the woman herself, but only interested in her virginity, then she will not want you.
So think about what your end goal is, and how you come off to women. Would another virgin woman want ti date you, and why should she?
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reader, Tisha-1 +, writes (27 March 2012):
I don't know why you have decided you are defeated before you have even started, There are plenty of women who feel the same way you do, you just are looking at the sexually active women for some reason. Maybe you are attracted only by a certain look and have made an assumption that those women must be sexually active?
You're already angry at the imaginary girlfriend for an imaginary sexual past, and have decided that paying a prostitute is the way to get even? Really? I think you need to take a step back and reflect on why you are so angry at all women without distinguishing or perceiving that women have the same range of approaches to sexuality as you and other men do.
When was the last time you asked a girl out on a date? Why not start small and work up to the losing virginity thing?
You've mentally defeated yourself before you even started. It's a bit sad, really.
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reader, anonymous, writes (27 March 2012): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionthe reason i think is the best solution is because i know is unlikely to be someone else first, yes i know it would be special for my partner to get to be my first, but what about me? what extra do i get? she gets to be my first while i dont get to be her first, i dont find that very fair, she gets to have a sexual past, living her life, while i save myself for someone who is also waiting just to have been all for nothing.
if i lose it to a hooker i know that it would mean nothing, but thats the point, she would not feel special, and i would not feel special, but i find it better to just lose my virginity in a meaningless experience, rather than being the one who gives but doesnt get in the relationship, i dont want to be the poor fool who waited for nothing, who waited to lose it to a special girl who also had her first time and it was only a waste of time, because it didnt happen and had to settle for less, while she and everyone else was out there having the time of their lives having sex and other relationships.
is not about being afraid of not measuring to please my girlfriend sexually, because im not worried about that. the original purpose for keeping my virginity it was to be able to lose it to someone who also was losing it(and i obviously loved), but without that then it loses its purpose, so i rather that it just dessapears. is like my way of getting rid of something of great disappointment
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reader, Wisdom +, writes (27 March 2012):
 You are putting too much thought into this. I think you are silly to loose it to a prostitue but your expectations of loosing it to a virgin maybe a little high too.
What about just giving it to the girl you love? One day you will fall in love and it won't matter if she has expereince or not, You will simply love her and want to be with her.
Try finding that.
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reader, LovelyLemon +, writes (27 March 2012):
 There are plenty of girls that are still virgins at your age, they are just usually more reserved and maybe don't flaunt their virginity like some girls flaunt their sex-appeal. Being a virgin isn't necessarily the most important thing in the world either, what matters is how you feel about the person.
If you value how you give your virginity away, then I strongly suggest that you avoid prostitutes. I don't think that you would feel good about yourself. It is a one time thing after all. Just get a nice girlfriend that you care about and make it a meaningful experience. If she cares about you too, then she won't mind if you don't know exactly what to do.
Much love and Best wishes
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