A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:Hello everyoneBf and I have been dating for three years now. For the most part, we have a very solid relationship. We agree on most salient things and enjoy laughing with each other. We have even considered moving in with one another, something I have never done before which is exciting but also has me thinking about long term commitment.I’ve known since I was younger that I wanted to get married. I am a christian so while I value the biblical side to marriage, I also find myself valuing the security and implied meaning behind such a commitment. I don’t see myself wanting a huge wedding or anything flashy, I just value the commitment that is made under the covenant of God. While I know, technically, a piece of paper should not change they way a couple loves eachother, I still find it hard giving up this dream of mine to be a wife.The problem that my bf and I are seeming to have, is that he does not hold the aforementioned values and when asked if he can even “see himself getting married to me,” has told me that he will not know if that is possible until we move in with eachother. While I understand his perspective, when he told me that over the weekend I was very disheartened and even started to feel insecure about me moving in with him. I have always thought that when I finally moved in with my partner, we would both be on the same page about a future commitment. Even if its something thats off into the future after we have established that we are a good fit. (For example, had if said, “While I cant see myself marrying you now, if we live with eachother successfully for a year, I would be more than happy/excited to propose,” I would have felt WORLDS better.Unfortunately, the prior conversation occurred at entirely the wrong time and under the wrong circumstances (both of us were drunk hanging with his family) and instead of being a productive conversation, turned left pretty fast. What I am starting to notice though, is that out of all of the major arguments we have ever had, this topic seems to be the one that reoccurs the most. While I try my hardest to listen to his side and concerns, I never feel like mine are fully heard/realized. I know its unfair of me to ask for an engagement right now, but I just find it so hard to take that next step of living with my partner if he doesn’t even see me as his possible wife. I get that marriage is just not important to him right now and I could continue to bury my desires until he has a stronger conclusion regarding us, but I fear doing so will simply contribute to more blow ups due to underlying resentment and fear.The blow up happened this past weekend and although I thought we had made up, he has grown distant. We have not spoke at length for two days and I am starting to feel like I am being punished for even bringing up this conversation in the first place. I am trying to give him all the space he needs cause I understand that I hurt his feelings (He feels like I do not value the commitment he has given me/the steps he is taking to grow closer to me). I don’t want to further cause a divide between us, but I don’t know how to have this conversation with him without it turning into a big blow up.I wish I could just give up my ideals concerning marriage and commitment, I feel like if I could, we would have a nearly perfect relationship. But I have to be true to my heart and values and clearly, my resentment and fears will just bubble up and implode if I keep neglecting the thoughts I have for me and partners future.**TLDR: BF of 3 years has said that he can not know/see himself marrying me until we live with one another. This revelation has been the source of all of our past major arguments and I am starting to feel like it will never be resolved unless I change my values and beliefs. While I thought I was okay with doing that for the simple fact that I love him and the relationship we have built, my fears are starting to creep back up, especially as we talk about moving in with one other soon. We have not spoken much since the argument since I am trying to give him space, but throughout this process I am feel alone and at a loss as to what to do.**
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female
reader, Youcannotbeserious  +, writes (8 July 2019):
 He's already had 3 years to decide whether he wants to marry you. Moving in together will not change anything except that, another 3 years or more down the line, you will reach another "crossroads" in your relationship. It will be a case of, "Well, we either get married or we break up" and, because neither of you will want the upheaval of breaking up, you will "settle" for marriage. A year or two down the line, you will be looking to divorce, because you really should have split up instead of marrying.
I see this so many times. Couples who are MEANT to be together usually both come to that conclusion fairly quickly, and certainly in less than 3 years. Couples who marry years down the line usually do so because it's a "make or break" situation. Problem is, it is already broken and getting married won't save it.
I understand what people are saying about marriage not being "just a piece of paper". However, it is absolutely NO guarantee of a future together either.
Marriage is important to you. You can see a future where you are married to this guy. Sadly it does not sound like he feels the same otherwise he would have made a decision by now.
Do yourself a favour and cut your losses. The sooner you get out of this relationship, the sooner you can get over it and start rebuilding your life and find someone who wants to marry you as much as you want to marry him. That is what you deserve.
A
female
reader, jls022 +, writes (8 July 2019):
I’ve been in a situation very similar to yours before, so I totally understand where you’re coming from. And as much as it pains me to say it, I think you should seriously consider ending your relationship for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, as others have said, marriage isn’t just a piece of paper. It’s a huge commitment and something you are well within your rights to want. To desire marriage isn’t unusual or unreasonable, but like you, my ex made me feel as if it was exactly that. As if I was making a big deal over a piece of paper and I actually started to believe that. It was only after I started to talk to other people who are married and they explained to me that they saw it as way more than that, that I started to accept that my feelings on marriage are equally as valid as his were. In fact, one of my good friends told me that he married his wife because, and I quote, ‘he couldn’t imagine a life in which he wasn’t married to her’. He said she is his favourite person and he wanted to formally and publicly declare that he wants to be with her and look after for the rest of his life.
It was then that I realised that’s what I wanted. I didn’t want to have to give ultimatums or hang around for another year waiting to see if my bf suddenly decided to change his mind and want to marry me. I wanted someone that KNEW he did. Someone that was as excited about it as me. That’s not to say that my ex was wrong for not being excited about it, just that he was the wrong guy for me.
The second reason is that he is unwilling to talk to you about it. Again, my ex used to do that to me and I was so scared of being seen as a ‘nag’ I stopped bringing it up. I knew that asking was putting more pressure on him, but I never stopped to realise that it was my relationship too and I deserved to know what the plan was for us as much as he did.
There seems to be this strange idea that a woman has to just wait around for a proposal and even asking about it is seen as a bit desperate, but why? It’s our life too so why is it all up to the man to decide when we move forward? I realised my ex was using this idea to keep me in limbo until he decided otherwise, and that’s not a good or healthy relationship in my book. Communication is everything in a relationship, and looking back I realise we didn’t have that.
Of course it’s easy for me to say this OP. It took me a long time to realise all of this and action it myself, so I get it if you don’t feel ready or willing to give it all up yet. But I’m my experience, when issues like this present themselves, there is a deeper disconnect between the two people involved that you’ve either not noticed or not accepted yet.
I was in my last relationship for 6 years before I left and it took me another 3 years to find another man I wanted to date seriously (I’m 33 now), but I’m now seeing a lovely guy who is the polar opposite to my ex. It’s only been 6 months, but I already know his thoughts on marriage and the future. Like me, he believes communication is key in a relationship and he involves me in all of his thought processes. He doesn’t keep me waiting for him to single-handedly decide where our future is headed. So there are men out there like that and I personally think it’s worth cutting your losses and looking for one.
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A
female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (8 July 2019):
 WiseOwlE's answer was a bit confusing to me, but I translate it to mean something of the likes of: break up.
I too think you should break up. Here's why.
You want marriage. Whoever told you it's just a "piece of paper" clearly does not want marriage or understands the committment involved. Such people are not marriage material. Do not excuse your desire for marriage. You want it, for religious and personal reasons. It's not just a piece of paper, certainly not to you. If someone married for the paper I would say they are stupid fools. Marry because you want to committ to one another for life, and are prepared to take on the legal committment as well. A marriage is a legally binding CONTRACT between two people. People who marry for love also shouldn't marry, in my opinion. You dont marry for love. You marry for COMMITTMENT. It's a legally binding contract. I donnt know how many times I have to repeat this before people get it. Marriage is a contract. It's not a love pact. Its more a financial contract than anything else.
If you want marriage, with all that it means and all the committment both for your relationship AND your economy, and are prepared to take care of someone until death in sickness and in health, then do not excuse marriage as a "piece of paper". A piece of paper is signing on a rented apartment together without marriage, THAT is a piece of paper without anything else involved other than the obligation of paying rent.
Second, your boyfriend does not want to marry you. After 3 years together, if marriage was on his mind, and if marrying you was on his mind, he would know by now. One doesnt need to live together to know wether or not one wants marriage, in general, or wether one desires to become a family and not just be sexual partners. Marriage isn't right for everyone. And it sounds like marriage isn't whats right for your boyfriend, certainly not here and now, and not with you. And thats FINE. This is what you need to understand. Him not wanting the same as you is painful, sure, but he's not being cruel or mean to you. This is what is right for him and he has every right to stand up for himself and say no. He has every right to say "I dont want to marry you" or "I want to live together before I consider marriage". This is not cruel or mean, this is his right. Just as you have a right to say "I want marriage" or "I want to marry you" or "I want this relationship to head towards marriage".
You and him are NOT compatible. This is a hard learned lesson that I see you still haven't learned, but perhaps now is the moment. It doesn't matter how much you love one another, or how compatible you believe you are, or how lovely you think a marriage with him would be. It doesn't matter, because he doesn't want it. And you can bully him and pressure him into it, sure, but he will be miserable and resent you for life and in the end leave you anyway. And ask yourself the question: do you honestly want to marry someone who you have to drag down the church floor?
There are plenty of men out there who want marriage. Who want to either marry before living together, or who want to live togther as a step towards seeing if you should marry or not, and who are open and honest about this. Plenty of men who want this.
You are wasting your time and his by holding on to this relationsip. You can love him, and be apprechiative of the good times you had, but tell him good-bye. You should break up because you and him are not on the same page when it comes to marriage. And no, you should certainly not give up your goals, dreams and principles for this man, or any other man you meet. If marriage is what you want, then you need to stick to your guns and face reality: that you will have to end relationships where marriage is not on the horizon.
I have done the same. I want marriage and children. I have been honest and up front about this desire of mine with all boyfriends. Some of them have lived together with me. Some I have discussed marriage and children with. One time I was engaged. But the moment I realized they were not the men I wanted to be married to, or that they were not the men I wanted as a father to my future children, I would say good-bye. Not that there was anything wrong with any of these men. They were good and kind and decent people. But they were not right. Later on some of them have married other women, some have had children. I have no regrets, because I know they were not right for me. And now I am getting married in 3 weeks and have a baby on the way. My future husband is always telling me how he looks forward to marrying me, how excited he is, he has been so involved in planning the wedding and has even spent more money on his outfit for the day than I have on my dress. He WANTS this. No pulling him down the church floor, no arguing about it. He wants it. This is the way it should be. Not like with you and your boyfriend.
So please save yourself the time and trouble. Break up. Only then can you move on to find the person you actually will end up marrying, the person who WANTS marriage and who wants to marry YOU more than anything else in the world. Find THAT person, and stop trying to force your current boyfriend into something that isnt right for him.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 July 2019): Corrections:
"I gotta tell you, many men are right to be scared or cautious."
"They end-up with insecure fruity-tooties, basket-cases, and damaged-victims leftover from bad-choices they held onto for too long...because "she loved him!"
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (8 July 2019): If you're familiar with my nom de plum, and have read any of my past posts or articles; you know I refer to the 3-5 year phase of a relationship as the "make-it or break-it" phase of a relationship.
People either move-on to the next stage or level of their romantic-relationship; or they get itchy-feet, and just want to move on. The relationship is stagnant, sex is meh, and porn has crept into the sex-life; making her insecure and frustrated. His weight is steady, hers fluctuates up and down. She has a kid, and gains a few pounds. Now sex becomes scarce, and he seems to like his phone and other devices more than he likes her. She still may be sexy, keeps up her appearance, brings home the bacon; but he seems distant or restless. They can't discuss things without it turning into a knock-down drag-out fight. It's a battle of wills!
Why do they stay together? Force of habit, and the grip of jealousy makes some of them stay together. Intertwined-credit, or financial-dependency. They can't stand the thought of their former-partner with somebody else (having sex); but by the same token, their relationship hasn't progressed or shown any signs that being together will lead to marriage. She usually wants that. He's iffy, and drags his feet. Finds excuses to delay; but tells her he loves her more, just to shut her up.
Most of the posts we receive come from women. They are usually the ones wanting to move a FWB hookup to a real committed/monogamous-relationship, or transform a friendship to a romance. Maybe they've got kids; and she has lived with a man for over five years, or more. He says marriage is just a piece of paper. As soon as she gets the strength to dump him, she hears he's getting married!
In each case, the guy is usually the hold-out. Always keeping commitment or marriage well out her reach. Always placing some condition or stipulation in her way; while cleverly testing how desperate she is to cling to the relationship.
As always "...but I love him" forces her to give-in, postpone, or dismiss what she really wants.
What she really wants is for him to make their relationship legal and binding. To start a family, create a partnership, and take life wherever it goes as a family. Solidified and bonded through marriage. Women often forfeit their dreams, put-up with the postponements, and live on teasers. They let him have the honey pot; until he's tired of it, then starts checking-out other women...or turns to porn. That's not always the case, but pretty often it is.
Sweetheart, there is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring marriage before moving-in; rather than creating a faux-marriage. Meanwhile, he gets everything "he" wants. Available-sex, being at the top of his list. Moving-in together doesn't promise you anything. Men and women think differently. What you get from living together and what he gets from it could be two entirely different things. He knows sex is there whenever he wants (or doesn't) want it. That popular come-on of the free 30-day-trial (with no obligation); might work with a new gadget on the market, or a mattress; but human beings are fickle. We change! We are affected by health, environment, and circumstances. We age! We make mistakes! Our physical-appearance changes, and we may have disagreements. That's why commercials have disclaimers.
"If you're a good-girl, I might marry you someday!" So what will you do if you can't always be perfect, and he's not always a good-boy??? "Lets save-up and buy a house first." He's making minimum-wage, or always in-between jobs. How long do you think that'll take? He makes lots of money; but he spends it on his own toys, but you're trying hard not to look like a gold-digger. Oh, how you females get played sometimes! Yet, you refuse to persist or persevere to get what you want; instead, you let your foolish-heart override your common-sense and what your mama told you! He'll getaway if I don't...THEN LET HIM!!! He will anyway!
"But I love him!" I know how it feels. I've been stupid in-love too!
If we took a survey, I will venture to speculate that for the most part these women cook, clean, do laundry, and run a household like a wife for these guys. Many make more money than he does, and yet they still pay the bills, clean house, do the laundry, do the cooking, and take care of him. The only way they get anything in return is through manipulation, or blackmail. They nag, they whine, they beg, and plead. He won't budge. He makes pie-in-the-sky promises. Paints all these rosy pictures of the future, telling her he can see her as his wife. Having kids! I bet among those women surveyed, the majority of them will have all these things in-common.
Here's a good-one! Wants her to have his kids, with no hint or clue that he wants to marry her...ever! Then he ups and leaves her a single-mom struggling and fighting for child-support.
A growing number of men don't seem to want to be committed (trapped) by marriage. They fear losing their freedom and being stuck with one sex-partner for eternity. They fear the boredom of domestication; and marriage might cramp his style. He can't do the things he wants to do, or hangout with his buddies whenever he pleases. There is an inert fear of having to grow-up and face true responsibility for a family who depends on h im as a breadwinner; and the backbone that supports his family and household. I gotta tell you, many men are right to be scared or causious. They end-up with insecure fruity-tooties, basket-cases, and damaged-victims leftover from bad-choices they held-on to for too long...because "she loved him!"
Then most and foremost, men fear a divorce that will take what little of nothing he has away. If he has a lot, he doesn't want someone to come along and take half of it away; just because she got pissed-off! He'll have kids that live with her, and she'll be a thorn in his side for the rest of his life, as he begs and pleads to see his own children. When that is the example set before them time and time again; they will settle for free milk over buying the dairy.
If you don't want to live with a guy until you marry him. Stick with it. You have a right to your own values, boundaries, guidelines, and criteria. If he gets-away; he never wanted to marry you in the first-place. You can't bargain for marriage, this isn't the 17th century. Either you're on the same-page, or you're not. He's probably getting sex when he wants it anyway. That's usually the case anyhow. Move-in together, and maybe he'll consider marriage in maybe another 3-5 years!
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