A
female
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I'm currently at quite a good university studying a rigorous subject, and as I don't know any guys from my uni I'd really like to go out with I've started dating those from outside uni.I don't make a big deal out of my education, or like to argue for no reason, but I have opinions of my own about things, and quite often this leads to clashes with the guys I like, even if I don't want to debate them at length. I also tend to prioritise my studies (especially right now as it's exam time and I want a First), read the news and so on. I can be pretty logical and matter-of-fact and guys don't seem to like it when I point out the obvious or explain something. I sometimes get guys calling me "too smart" or trying to make fun of the fact I have a strong work ethic. Compared to a lot of my coursemates I am actually pretty lazy, I'm certainly not revising 24/7 but I take this seriously.I'm not one of those people who throws their knowledge in your face and tries to prove they're smarter than you, but sometimes when a guy says something mean purely out of ignorance I will correct them. For example, I told this Christian guy I was seeing (I'm Christian) that I was helping out a close friend with dealing with a family issue, and when he pressed me I explained that the friend was Muslim but coming out as gay, and he said the friend should "choose" to be straight. We ended up arguing about whether or not homosexuality is "moral." I'd say I beat him but then he was sulky for ages and said I needed to be stronger in my faith. The option with a lot of Christian guys regarding stuff like gay marriage or abortion seems either to be to have a long-winded argument or defer to their opinion and shut up.I've tried to "tone down" the fact I value education and have a mind of my own - like I said I don't like pointless arguments - but a lot of guys (especially Christians as I only date them) seem to fall in love with the feminine, girly, non-threatening side of me and then resent the strong-minded, logical side of me. I don't go for the really conservative types but I don't feel I could have a relationship with someone who didn't follow my religion. Advice?
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female
reader, anonymous, writes (7 June 2013): Some men have a need to be smarter, better educated, more competent, and higher-wage-earning than their wives/gf's. They are typically either very insecure, or were brought up with ingrained misogynistic attitudes (depending on what their families and parents were like) and have internalized it. Often, very conservative fundamentalist christians believe that God intended for men to be dominant over women. So you can imagine that such men would tend to not want their partners to be better educated than them, or if they are, to not show it.You should not downplay your education or hold yourself back as that would mean you are not being your authentic self. Instead you need to seek out and find a different class of man to date. There are men who do not feel threatened at all by their gf/wife being better educated and higher wage-earning than them (my husband, for example). such men have enough self confidence that their egos are not so fragile.Highly educated men are not necessarily more likely to embrace you. Many are, but a shocking number are also misogynistic (I am a woman with a PhD in physics so I'm speaking from experience here).....for example some highly educated men came from families where dad was a surgeon/scientist/lawyer or other intellectual professional, while mom was a stay at home wife all her life and dedicated her life to his career so their sons are only playing out their own pre-defined gender roles that allow themselves to pursue higher education and value intellectualism in themselves but don't want it in their gf's or wives. Stay away from these men too.Instead, my advice is to find out what your date's family of origin was like. What is his relationship to the women in his family - his mother, sisters, aunts, etc. Does he come from a gender-stereotyped family or does he come from a family where he had positive female role models who were educated or worked outside the home in an equal capacity as the father (and not, for example, working part time 'unimportant' jobs her whole life so that the husband can pursue his career).
A
female
reader, CindyCares  +, writes (5 June 2013):
 I don't think it has a lot to do with men not liking well educated women, or even women who are assertive and opinionated. SOME men will feel intimidated , but those are the men that probably YOU would not deem worth your time. I think that a confident,intelligent man will prefer his intellectual equal , over a nodding porcelain doll that always says: yes darling you're right.
I think it's simpler, you are tryng to apply critical thinking and rational debate to matters of faith. Faith is not rational and is not logic, and that 's what makes discussions over religion and politics such a thin ice to walk on. I won't tell you to abstain from dialogue and from confronting each other's positions, in fact some discussions are very stimulating, thought provoking, even inspiring for everybody. But, you've got to recognize when you reach the non return point where insisting is pointless, creates useless strife, and may become just disrespectful.
Example, as a non Jewish person I don't believe the Messiah is coming. Logic and laws of probability tells me that if you have been waiting for someone for the last, what ? 3000 years, 4000?, and he never showed up- well, chances are he is not coming at all. But I would not try to push my reasonable assumption on the local Rabbi- it's about beliefs, about things that engage your heart and spirit, not your brain.
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A
female
reader, Tisha-1  +, writes (5 June 2013):
 Expand your dating pool?
http://www.pcnbritain.org.uk
http://www.thechristianleft.org
If you are a non-traditional type of Christian woman then you may be happier with a non-traditional type of Christian man.
Those links were two from a google search: I expect you can find more locally if you apply the correct filters.
Just one overall piece of advice: men don't like to be proven wrong. It's kind of an ego thing. They get all huffy about it. So I think if you are trying to build friendships with men, by all means, go ahead and debate. Just don't pith the poor loser like a frog in a mid-century science class. It doesn't help anyone.
You only need to find the one, as another aunt here pointed out.
Keep your standards high, go to the appropriate church, tell your friends and family that you are looking for a good guy. In fact, I think if you have a male friend then you could ask him if there is something that you could do to improve your chances in the Christian dating pool.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 June 2013): I understand your frustration. but I never met my boyfriend until we were in grad school. We are both smart. I am going to be a molecular scientist and my boyfriend is going to become a micro biologist. If you are that smart there are various clubs and organizations which would cater to you. I am thinking about the Socrates club and something to do with Albert Enstein. I had a girlfriend who had the same issues. She got involved in one of these clubs. Good-luck..
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A
male
reader, daletom +, writes (4 June 2013):
You have actually convolved three or more significant factors in your question.
Take the easy one first. It has long been observed that both men and women may have casual or short-term relationships with almost any willing partner, but when they choose long-term life partners they tend to prefer people with intelligence similar to their own. In popular literature that was discussed in Chap 12, "Generation Upon Generation", of Dr. Jacob Bronowski's book, "The Ascent of Man" about 40 years ago. It actually may still be in-print; you should be able to get it at a public library, and the entire BBC TV series based on the book is available as a free download. (The series is an award-winning, excellent effort for both its production and content. Watch it together with a guy you're interested in and I think you'll soon know if you two are intellectually compatible.)
The second factor is your Christian beliefs. You are doing the right thing to limit your serious dating to others with similar fundamental beliefs, even though this reduces the number of potential partners. It's no different than an unemployed person who only applies for jobs as, say, an accountant. He is self-eliminated from consideration for 90% or more of the available job openings, but in the end he knows that those other openings are NOT a good match for either him or the employer. And, he only needs ONE job, not the thousands of available jobs - just as you only need ONE life partner, not the thousands of available guys.
At the same time it sounds like you hold views which are contrary to the current consensus of Christian thought. I will not debate you on the theological correctness of your positions, or even referee such a debate, but you have to be aware that others within your faith community will have differing positions. I think there is little to be gained from approaching all of those differences with a combative, do-or-die, spirit. Some aspects of your faith you MUST hold VERY tightly, grasping them with a firmly closed fist. Other teachings should be held securely, but not so secure that you would lose an arm if they were taken from you. And some points can be safely held in an open hand, knowing that at some point they may be taken from you but without injury. In the end, "it takes two to tangle" so choose your battles wisely.
Finally there is a matter of accommodation. A fulfilling, successful, marriage requires BOTH partners to give up at least some of the "me" and "you" to create the "us". That doesn't mean one partner must out-reason or out-debate the other, nor should you give in to him, nor should he give in to you, nor must you "meet half way" in some mutually unsatisfactory compromise. It DOES include the idea of unselfishly allowing each other to be a unique, valuable, and respected individual within your identity as a couple.
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (4 June 2013): You need a funny engineer. You're really smart and smart guys will enjoy this about you, while others will dislike you for it. You could settle, but then their lack of smarts will get to you after a while. If you find a smart guy he will enjoy arguing with you.
For instance: I don't think being gay is immoral but acting on it is. Just like wanting to eat 10 cakes isn't bad, but actually doing it is. Arguing like this is fun, the point is not to win but to come up with ways to persuade the other person. You could even argue that Santa exists for fun :).
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (4 June 2013):
 P.S. I have problems with "smart" girls because they are able to see right through me!!!!!
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A
male
reader, Sageoldguy1465 +, writes (4 June 2013):
I think this is the key phrase in your submittal: "...I don't feel I could have a relationship with someone who didn't follow my religion...."
The simple "answer" is to find someone who claims to be of your religion... and who interprets and practices it just as you do.....
Short of that.... you are learning that life is a constant series of COMPROMISES and social nicities... which sometimes includes other that outright truth and forthrightness.... For example... How is a man to answer when his wife poses the question: "Does this dress make me look fat?" (and it DOES)?????
See if you can figure out just how far you are willing to stretch yourself and your behaviour in order to fit, well, in to the fabric of humanity and society without compromising your basic principles... (pick your battles judiciously...)
Good luck...
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A
female
reader, Keeley345 +, writes (4 June 2013):
There's nothing wrong with being ambitious and educated. Some men do find this intimidating whilst others don't. There are ambitious people who'd feel comfortable in your company and not so ambitious people who'd feel inadequate or maybe not care. The issue you might be having is clashes in opinion possibly personality and not knowing when to back down. It's ok to have an opinion and make it known. But sometimes it can offend others and even come across as confrontational. I had a work mate who is now a Conservative councellor. Before I got to know him, people would say negative things about him like ''he thinks he knows it all'', ''he is sooo opinionated.'' I actually got on well with him and had interesting conversations and debates with him. Each to their own. But what I'd advise is that sometimes it's best to back down and even nod and agree with people. Just to keep the peace. Doesn't mean you're letting go of your opinions, you're just holding back alittle. Some people you may come across though, might have offensive and silly opinions. Ever heard the sayings by Mark Twain and The Bible ''never argue with fools...''? They apply to situations where YOU'LL end up coming off worse by engaging in pointless arguments or behaviour. By that I mean sometimes it's not worth sharing an opinion with someone because they'll never get the point anyway. Try keeping 'some' opinions to yourself and letting things go in certain instances. Trust me people will end up feeling overwhelmed and regard you as a snob or confrontational. I've been there. I'm opinionated and university educated too, however some people feel threatened, jealous and have even commented that I think I know it all and m stuck upwhen all I did was share my views on stuff. Hence I only engage in stimulating conversation with people who are opwn to it and you'll knowwho they are
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (3 June 2013): OP with all due respect you're talking about trying to argue logic with Christian men. That's like trying to tighten a screw with a worm. They don't mix well.
Plus if you're only dating Christians then you're dating a conservative bunch anyway because I'm presuming they have to be practising Christians. Christianity is a conservative male dominated religion, you're not exactly fulfilling the role your chosen dating pool go for. The fact any of them let you speak your opinion is a gift not a right, they will expect you to defer to their opinions as that is the basis of your faith. (1 Timothy 2:12)
Of course a Christian man is going to feel emasculated and threatened by an "opinionated" woman not fulfilling her Christian role.
OP there are guys like that who aren't serious about Christianity or have no religion too though. Just as there are moderate Christians, although frankly I haven't met many.
The funny thing is OP you say you only feel you can work with Christian guys, then how have you got a Muslim friend? Can you not have deep, meaningful relationships with people who aren't the same faith as you?
I only say that because you don't know if a non-practising Christian or even a non-theist would suit you better intellectually or be a better match because you completely remove them from contention.
All I can say is maybe on that point you need to broaden your horizons. Plenty of guys out there with no real religious faith but who are accepting of it and will gladly embrace it as part of you.
I mean I agree with the others do not compromise who you are or tone anything down for anyone. But if you open your mind you'll see there are plenty of non Christian men with the exact same morals as you, the same beliefs, the same outlook on life that may work really well for you.
You're young OP, you have plenty of time to find the right matches. I say give some non-Christians a shot or ones that are not serious about it. Can't hurt can it?
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A
female
reader, shrodingerscat +, writes (3 June 2013):
 I know exactly what you mean. I'm also a Christian woman and passionately for LGBT rights, and fairly educated myself. NEVER HIDE WHO YOU ARE. There are men out there that will appreciate you having a strong sense of morals and social justice. They'll be similar to you, and instead of criticizing you, they'll be similarly motivated to protect human rights and won't complain about you standing up for your beliefs.
You're still extremely young, you don't -have- to be with someone -now-. It's okay to be single, especially while you're focusing on your education.
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A
male
reader, CMMP +, writes (3 June 2013):
Some guys like 400 lb women, does that mean you're going to gain a bunch of weight? I hope not... find a guy who likes you, not the version of you that you think he'll like.
I've had girls do that and eventually the pretending stops and the relationship falls apart.
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A
male
reader, CaringGuy +, writes (3 June 2013):
My advice is to not change, and don't necessarily tone your education down, or pretend that you don't totally have a mind of your own. For starters, you should value education, and you should speak your own mind. Remember, you're after a guy who likes you for being you, not for pretending to be something you're not. If you 'tone it down', then all that will happen is you'll meet guys who aren't suitable, and the ones that are suitable will pass on by.
The best thing you can do is stick to your guns on what you want. Don't be something you're not. Be yourself. You might not find someone straight away, but it's best to find the right person, then the wrong person. And for what it's worth, there are plenty of guys who like strong-minded logical women. My girlfriend is straight talking and logical, and it's a lot better than some of these predictable 'girlie' types.
You'll find what you're looking for when you're comfortable being yourself, and not afraid to be yourself. A guy will like that.
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