A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:So, I've recently, after the same bullshit of "I see you more as a friend", decided to change myself into the complete opposite of what I am now, knowing that it will take a long time. Today I behave like a Gentlemen when dating, red roses as a gift, paying for lunch, compliment, be respectful and do jokes about me and other stuff. Yes, I was raised to behave this way, not because I want to get into womens pants.Seeing that such a personality wont get me far in relationships, I've considered become more of a... jerk as they are called. The thought of becoming one of them disgusts me, but it seems to be the only way forward, as a gentleman will only get rejections in some way or another. I do know that this sounds somewhat bitter, which it's supposed to. You could see this act of trying to change my personality as saying "F*** you", as I have lost my interest in dating.Some guys in here who knows how to achieve this? Reply to this Question
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female
reader, Euphoric29  +, writes (12 December 2013):
Dear OP,
I can understand why you'd feel bitter but please hang on. You don't have to. So many men are on dearcupid and feeling the grass will be greener once they're on the other side.. having changed into bad guys/jerks/a**holes.. that their qualities aren't valued. That dating is just a game they don't play right.
You got great practical advice on this site already, I don't need to add anything else. Just.. maybe if you were a girl, you'd understand. Many women are raised to believe they need to constantly prove they are pretty and desirable enough. They work out, they diet, worry endlessly about what to wear, how to style etc. They expect that when they meet a good guy, they need to prove it to them, too, that they are good enough.
So, if you meet a woman and you give her too much of this "you're good enough" feeling too early.. it's going to be weird for her. It's not what she expected. She prepared herself for an evening of impressing you and trying to earn your approval, she sees you as a challenge. So if you are too polite and everything, you take away the challenge, and she doesn't know how to play the game anymore. And either she'll tell herself that you're really a great guy, or that something must be wrong with you.. that your standards must be low if you don't wait for her to make all the efforts.. that you're desperate, innocent, weird.
So basically, you don't need to be a jerk. Just DON'T make her feel to sure of your affection too early. Keep her guessing a little, show you can man up, don't approve of everything she does, if you don't like something, feel free to add a little critique, don't agree on everything if it's not true.
If, beside all the good advice you've been given, I was to add another one.. it would be that next time you have a date, you don't go there with the "I hope she'll like me" attitude.. go there thinking.. "I hope I'll like HER". Don't try to get accepted and loved no matter what. Take a step back and be a tiny bit more critical than usual. You're attitude shouldn't be "f***k you", as that's aggressive and won't get you nowhere. Just think "let's see if I'll like you..". No woman should take your affection for granted. It's give and take.
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 December 2013): Try this first:1. Don't rush with being so gentlemanly, times changed, red roses could embarrass a girl, it could seem like a bit too much2. Expensive dinners or lunches are not necessary. Try something light, like couple drinks, or a movie night.3. Be carefull how you joke about yourself, don't put yourself down. 4. About not wanting to get into her pants: don't over do it also. We all know guys want to get into our pants eventually. That's why we agree to a a date because we like you at THAT level most of the time, and we expect that a guy is crazy about us and does want to get into our pants. Respecting a woman doesn't mean you need to show her no desire for her physically. My husband kissed me on a first date, and was trying to get me in bed gently for another couple month, before I said yes, but he did try it. He was not a jerk about it, and how you said was respectfull of my wishes, but he did try. It's only a turn of for us when a guy is so obvious to just wanting to get into our pants. We can detect it right away, at least most of us. And then of course it's a turn off. Before you turn yourself into a jerk, go easy with your dates, don't stress so much about being "all that".
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female
reader, chigirl  +, writes (11 December 2013):
 Just carry on as you are. The attitude is already in place, so the rest will follow naturally. Just hope you find what you are looking for.
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reader, anonymous, writes (11 December 2013): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionSo, thanks everyone for the input.Yes, a jerk has no long relationships but experience with womens behavior, something I do want, though getting older and older and still being a virgin demotivates me a lot sometimes when I think about it.I should clarify some things I said in my OP post: "..not getting into womens pants" What I did mean with this was ending up in bed on the first dates. I have no hurry with sex, why spoil the fun? Secondly, roses, compliments. I give them gifts when they invite me to meet their family, as a sign of courtesy and on the first date, depending on the person. I do not over do it with buying gifts all the time. I make no cheesy compliments, though when they wear a nice dress or good makeup etc. I do compliment them on that.@person12345I am aware of women liking confident men, which I am if I may say so. I've been a very insecure person a long time during my life, especially up until I graduated High School. Secondly, I am living my own life, making my own money and living life the way I want.Thanks for the long post WiseOwlE.@YouWishSad thing about my position is that in my town, which lies in the middle of nowhere and it being a looooong way to the next bigger city, there is nothing to do, or rather you can only do the standart dating stuff like cinema, bowling lunch and such. I never compliment somebody with the intend of getting a complimented, I do it because it feels right. I don't think about what other people would do, I do what I think is right, making my own choices. Guess a big part of the problem lies there.@CerberusSex is something that I do want to experience with that person, otherwise I would not be dating them. What I meant was not getting into her pants on the first couple of dates. I do give hints about me being sexually attracted to them, though I don't say out direct "lets get into bed on the 4th date" or something like that. If they ask about it I answer with "Later when we know each other better" or "way to early" in some way.Asexual sap? No. Overly respectful? Maybe, though I talk and act in a very polite way. Gifts and such are in no way meant as something romanticly, more like showing courtesy.@InCharliesShoesI love myself the way I am, if someone got any problem with how I am, well that would be their problem, not mine. I thought about the whole changing thing so I can get experience, seeing as a jerk has it easier getting a date, though I should add to this that the kind of women I find attractive are very rare. I do not have any kind of "must have" perks for women, though I don't like women who are skin and bones.As anon wrote, maybe I just havent found any suitable women yet. Hopefully I'm not staying single until I am 60...
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A
female
reader, InCharliesShoes  +, writes (10 December 2013):
Sadly the way you are feeling right now is how quite a few men feel due to the guys with an actual heart being turned down for a jerk. But it is best to know you shouldn't ever feel as if you have to change yourself for a girl, your friends, family, no one! You need to sure at first girls may be attracted to jerks, but until that guy starts being a jerk when they become involved with eachother, then see how long that 'relationship' lasts between them.These girls who tend to go for a jerk anyway tend not to be worth risking yourself for, if they're prepared to go out with a complete moron... sure let them, they obviously weren't the right person for you anyway!They way you described yourself being brought up and being a gentlemen when dating is exactly the way you want to be, because you'll see eventually every girl will stop and wonder why their relationships with the 'jerk type' have always ended so bad and then there is people like you. Any girl worth having in your life will respect you for who you are as a person, if they don't then you dodged a bullet, it was for the better...Just keep going and being who you are, you will find the right girl just keep going and eventually you will be glad you stuck to your guns!All the best- Charlie
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2013): "not because I want to get into women's pants."
OP what type of man doesn't want to get into a woman's pants? That's right, a friend.
You're doing things the right way, but you have to add wanting to get into their pants as part of that right way.
Chocolates, flowers, paying they're all nice things but they mean nothing, they'll think you're nice and that's not a bad thing but you have to desire them romantically and sexually if that's what you want.
OP you're like a lot of guys, you have some crazy notion that women don't like the idea of guys wanting to get into their pants. On the contrary they love that, they need that from a guy who wants to date them.
The mistake most guys make is they listen to what women say they want from the wrong sources. As llifton said all they do is seem to complain that there are no nice guys around, unfortunately for them most are the overly respectful, asexual sap who never tries to get intimate and seems more interested in understanding them as people that wanting to bone them.
Like seems to be your situation, you're obviously under the impression that a gentlemen isn't interested in getting into a girls pants. Bullshit, why date if sex isn't part of what you want? Just make friends with them instead then.
A gentleman knows that women want to feel desired, they want to feel to you want them sexually just as much as you're interested in what makes them smile, laugh etc.
Just add that to what you're doing now.
Flirt, try and get them alone so you can have some fun time. most women I know would rather refuse advances than you never make any. That's the truth, because they expect that OP, and if you're a nice guy then they really don't mind.
If a woman is treating you like a friend then it's because you're acting like one and no holding open doors and all that pleasantry crap is not romance, it's just meaningless custom. Keep doing it of course because that is part of who you are, but OP romance is chiefly about how you make a woman feel, chocolates aren't going to make her feel weak at the knees. You need to add a bit of sexual chemistry to the mix, that's what jerks do so well. They just do in a negative, selfish way.
Their power is in, as person12345 says, knowing what they want and knowing how to get it, they want that woman they're going to get her.
The person you describe OP, is not a gentleman he's an asexual wuss, buying cheap romantic gestures without any of the desire. Either that or he's just not moving in soon enough and wasting too much time on a woman who's not interested. Both scenarios just lead to bitterness.
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A
female
reader, YouWish  +, writes (10 December 2013):
 My husband was the proverbial "nice guy". He was a boy scout in my opinion, was a youth leader, never had sex before and was adamant about waiting until marriage (we actually did...I barely SAW the outside of our hotel room for the first 4 days of our honeymoon - my lady business had RUG BURNS and saw enough friction to start a fire in the woods!!)
He was the perfect gentlemen too and still is. He holds doors open, used to open my car door, walks on the street side of the road when we walk through the city, pulls the car up and picks me up when it's raining or snowing, and we still hold hands!
He is like person12345 described - confident, independent and NOT clingy. When I first started getting to know him, he was ambitious and was going places and I wanted to go along for the ride. He now is a bit more settled into careers and family life, but he is still up for new things and adventure.
What you're describing isn't being a jerk - you're wanting to become BITTER, which is a huge turnoff. You'll turn women away and get more bitter.
Lliften is right to a point - immature women mistake arrogance and mistreatment for confidence and excitement, so on the surface, it does seem like jerks get more action. Scott Peterson gets propositioned by so many women in letters at Supermax, and he's the guy who killed his wife and unborn son!
You have to be exciting, ambitious, talk about what your passions are in a way that draws her in. Confidence is the absolute key, and instead of projecting bitterness, confidence is the true "fake it 'til you make it" key for dating. No jealousy or clinginess or touchiness or drama.
You also said "do jokes about me". Self-deprecation is risky especially if you continue to fall back on it, because it can project insecurity. That's not "nice guy", that's "insecure guy". Same with the compliments - consider HOW you make them, whether you're excessive. Never compliment in order to fish for one in return or get her to like you more. Never ask for verbal validation of a date newly on, as in "having a good time?"
Also, one other thing - for first dates, I know the prerequisite dinner and a movie or some variation is always the old standby, but if you want to impress, do some quick homework on her and craft a first date you know touches her interests. If she's into Broadway, take her to see the newest play, or if she's into a specific band, get tickets for a concert. I went skydiving! I had made an offhand comment about that always being a dream of mine before we started going out. It wasn't on our first date, but he actually set up the tandem dive with the training beforehand! I was way more reckless (actually, I was completely insane) when I was younger and not a mom - I had to have stitches in my head chasing a tornado and getting hit by a golf-ball sized hail stone that had broken in half and had a sharp side to it when I was 20.
You don't have to be a mean jerk. But you do have to possess confidence and creativity and stand out. You have to know what you want out of life, and not be afraid of rejection. If you've ever watched baseball, the greatest hitters fail more than they succeed. Babe Ruth the legendary player had the home run record, AND he had the highest strikeout record. He was great because he wasn't afraid to strike out! And you can't be afraid and let your ego turn somersaults every time you strike out with a woman too.
You can do it! Don't get bitter.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2013): I wouldn't suggest being a jerk. Maybe you should get to know the woman, and treat her accordingly. The point is to be yourself. Learn to know what's incompatible with your personality-type.It is true, even in my own experience, that the nicest guys get treated like space aliens by women. As a gay man, the same happens. It seems to make people view the class and kindness in you, as weakness or something weird. That is usually a sign that they don't have experience with a classy guy. They usually meet jerks. So you have to give them time to adapt to who you are, and the way you prefer to treat a lady. That is, if they want to give you that opportunity. If they don't, move on and stop whining about it. She did you a favor.If you strike out with a lady, that's because she's the wrong type; but you should still date all types of women. Prepare yourself to just disappear into the sunset, when they roll their eyes. She's just not that into you.Can-it with the flowers and candy, and don't go over-board spending on drinks or dinner. If you still like being romantic, offer a single rose instead of a bouquet. Reward her with simple surprises as time progresses, and you see evidence that she is increasing her interest in you. Give her something to look forward to, instead of dumping the horn of plenty over her head from the get go.I think a lot of your problem is timing. You try too impress too early. You have a romantic side. Most fellows are klutzes at dating; and a lot of men aren't good at that polite opening the door stuff. They simply want to get into her pants. They put all the formalities aside and go for it.You like to woo the lady and offer a courtship ritual. I adore that in a guy, unfortunately; to some, it comes across as sappy.So, take it down a notch with offering her a prince; and just offer her nice Joe. He is polite, but down to earth.Offer a little more flirtation. If a woman wears a sexy dress or outfit, does her hair and makeup, she wants to know how sexy she is. She doesn't want to be treated like a princess. If she's a gold-digger; of course she wants to be wined and dined, and treated like arm-candy. But she's dating your wallet, not you. You have to know what kind of lady you're with, and learn what she likes. Then give her what she likes; instead of performing a well-rehearsed and dramatically prepared romantic evening. It comes across as a little phony and contrived. Like you're trying too hard. Sometimes you make a lady feel out-classed. She may be a little clumsy or less adept with her manners. So, she figures you're expecting her to put on airs. That's phony and too much work. She may prefer beer over wine. Or a shot of Jack or tequila, over some fru-fru fruity cocktail. If she picks all the most expensive items on the menu, it's not a sign of class. It's a sign of a woman who doesn't get to meet suckers like you, and she has no intention of putting out. Just getting a belly full of lobster.The jerk will treat her like a piece of meat. He gets her into bed the first night; she'll expect that assh*le to call her the next day. He'll take her to the cheapest restaurant in town, and hide in a dark corner to avoid being seen by the last female he brought there, got drunk, and dragged home. These guys are sleaze-bags. Tools!He'll ignore her text messages and calls, and she'll fall madly in-love. She starts having an allergic reacting to rejection. Gets all gaga and upset. He's a challenge, and she has placed her worth in his hands. Seriously!?Do you want women like that?If you turn into one of those guys, you'll attract the neediest, most obnoxious, self-deprecating, phone-stalking drama-queens known to mankind. That's because many women don't have a clue how a man should behave. They don't really understand what masculinity is. They think it means macho and being over-butch. I know gay guys like that. I also know women like that. Even though they can give you a grocery list of traits they think we should have. Don't pay any attention to it. It's cock and bull. They want to feel desirable, they like to see your carefree masculine side, and they want respect; but don't know what to do with it when they get it. That's just the way it is. If you're used to driving an old truck, a Ferrari will scare the heck out of you.Be relaxed, confident, flirtatious, and masculine (manly). If she likes you enough to want to see more of you; then bring on the flowers. Make passes and be a little forward. She wants to know if you want sex with her. Stare at her bosom and her lips a lot. She'll notice where you put your eyes. Drag her in with a sexy stare. Then act as if you've lost interest. Give her a chance to turn on some womanly charm. It's got to be give and take. She has to have a chance to show off her seductive side.If you don't seem to want to have sex with her, she thinks you're gay, or she's not attractive to you. If she has to put you in your place, she is totally flattered by the attention. Know the limits, or you'll be smiling out of the side of your face, or choking on your testicles. Learn how to make passes. It's an art.Being a jerk will land you a masochistic soap opera diva. She likes soap opera relationships where she's the mistreated sex-kitten. She tells her friends how much of a dirt-bag dog you are, and they plot things against you. You get dirty looks from strange females you've never met. Her friends will try to pick you up behind her back. Then run back and tell her you're no good, and made passes at them.That's crap. Find a confident, classy, attractive woman who knows what she wants. One who doesn't have a history of dating a long list of jerks, and will allow you to be the sweet romantic guy that you are. Just don't pull out all the stops on the first date. Determine if it's worth the trouble first. That might take a few dates. You've got to go through failures to sharpen up your game, brother. If you don't get another chance; you didn't waste your time, money, or manners. If you really liked her and she didn't appreciate you for it; she was a cherry with a pit.Go ahead and change your personality. Just be prepared for what you get for it. You reap what you sow.
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reader, anonymous, writes (10 December 2013): I have a healthy and happy relationship with a gentleman. I love that he's a gentleman.
90% of the women you meet won't be the one for you so it doesn't matter that they don't like you. Keep an eye out for those who like you as you are.
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female
reader, person12345 +, writes (10 December 2013):
 Traits in jerks women tend to like:
Confidence
Independence
Knowing what they want
Traits that make people just jerks
Arrogance
Selfishness
You don't have to take it all as a package deal. You can be confident and independent without being a douche. The "perfect" guy for a lot of women finds a way to have just the top traits without the bottom ones.
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female
reader, Foot-In-My-Mouth  +, writes (10 December 2013):
 No, I don't agree that women like jerks. Everyone wants and likes a genuine person, a true gentleman/lady and don't let silly generalisations make you think otherwise. You cannot change your personality. Either you're a genuine gentleman or you're a jerk who has been pretending to be nice in order to score with women. And if you're really nice, you cannot transform into a bad person overnight, not even to "get" girls.
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female
reader, Pr3tty_in_pink86 +, writes (10 December 2013):
Some advice from me I don't know if other women would agree:
red roses as a gift;
A bit too much for some women, for no reason anyway. If it was valentines day maybe.
paying for lunch;
I guess this is okay. Not every time though.
compliment, be respectful;
Try not do overdo the compliments early on.
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female
reader, llifton +, writes (10 December 2013):
 Sadly, you are right in feeling this way.
I know a lot of the other ladies on here may not like my answer, however, I'm gay and I have experienced the same issues as you in dating so I can very much relate.
As women, we say we want a gentleman and someone who treats us like a queen. Thing is, our actions show completely the opposite. It's true.
Subconsciously, women respond to jerks with attraction and longing. While the guys who treat them well get the back seat to these guys. Women reinforce this bad behavior amongst men because men have learned that they must be a jerk in order to stand a chance.
I noticed this myself early on. I treated the women I dated extremely well. What was the result? I got trampled and left for shitty people. So it hardened me. I started behaving like how you describe - an asshole. It wasn't in my natural nature, but I was fed up. I got numerous amounts of women and had them wrapped around my finger doing that. It was like my own social experiment and it's TRUE. women respond more to jerks.
Thing is, women will complain and say there's no nice guys left out there anymore. Thing that they don't seem to realize is that they are conditioning them to be this way in mass numbers by walking all over and leaving the nice ones.
I'm not suggesting being a jerk. Eventually, you WILL meet the right girl who appreciates all you do. But it's not easy. Try not to give up and keep plugging away. I know it's frustrating.
Good luck.
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