A
male
age
51-59,
anonymous
writes:Reflecting on the "friend zone" on a lonely Friday night, I am deeply troubled by a question about women: There are many women out there who know guys who like them romantically but they themselves are not attracted to them. Ok, this is fine. This I get.But then...a lot of these women place the man in the "friend zone" and begin to treat them accordingly, all the while knowing the guy likes them!They lean on them, ask for advice, talk about guys they like, and go out with other guys. Yeah, they are "friends" with the guys: they genuinely like them but seem to not care that they are driving the guys crazy!So, I ask this: --If you are a woman who does this, how are you able to sleep at night? Do you not feel this is such a bad thing?--If you are a man who has been placed in the "friend zone" against his own wishes, why do you stay there?? Are you a masochist?Just looking to understand a phenomenon that makes me very upset. Thanks for your help! Reply to this Question
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 March 2011): I have to agree with dmartin89 on this. She phrased it really well. Take responsibility for your own emotions. If you think the woman is telling you details of her personal life to illicit a jealous reaction and boost her own ego, then it's up to you to walk away. She's obviously not a friend then. Wise up.
Women amongst their women friends do talk about their relationships with men. That's pretty common. And some of us talk to male friends to get perspective...I listen and give and get advice with my male friends as well.
Why do you want the woman to take more responsibility for your emotions? There is an unspoken social contract that women should be kind and nice. Honestly, I think that's why a lot of men end up in the friend zone, because women don't want to perceived as "mean".
The way you present your problem, the only alternative I could imagine that would please you is for a girl to ignore you and give you the cold shoulder. Would you honestly prefer that? I've tried it when I don't have the patience to pretend I like a guy. Guess what? It still sucks for them and they feel badly...and then you're a "slut" for dating someone else. It's always a lose-lose situation when you deal with some who is interested romantically in you and you don't feel the same way.
Take responsiblity for your emotions and don't let other people walk on you...but if you decide to lie down like a door mat in front of someone's door, don't then complain someone is wiping their feet off on you. Don't make the whole gender a scapegoat for your poor judgement of character or your weakness for women in general.
Hypothetically, if a women wrote in and complained, "Why are men so cruel as to keep using women casually for sex?" she would likely be told the obvious: "Don't put out so easily!" It would wrong and untrue for any of us to assume that men in general will use women sexually if given half a chance.
There are men like that...I've met them, but I take responsibility for getting myself in that situation. I don't blame it on men...and I don't believe their guilty feelings would make me feel better either.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 March 2011): I had a crush on a woman right after high school. She was going with a guy from work. I was smitten with her and as soon as they broke up I moved in on it. In the beginning I was way in the friend zone and by hook and by crook I chiseled my way in.
It lasted about two weeks until some older guy asked her out and she wanted to go.
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reader, tennisstar88 +, writes (13 March 2011):
 From reading that post, that's one case of a guy getting out of the Friend Zone. Those stories are RARE. No it's not fair for me to say it NEVER happens, but I will tell you it's highly unlikely that a guy is going to escape from it.
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reader, Jen1689 +, writes (13 March 2011):
 Precisely what I mentioned... Without giving my fiance a chance, I never would have known that we were so compatible intimately. Like I said, I had only ever been attracted to guys who didn't give a sh*t, so when I had a guy in front of me who was willing to do anything and everything just to see me smile, I didn't really know what to make of it. I didn't even TRY to feel attraction towards him. For a long time I didn't think I ever could. But the moment that I opened myself up to feeling something for him, he became the only person I saw as attractive. I don't even notice other guys now. The guys I used to be attracted to now just make me cringe. My fiance doesn't do anything in particular, but sometimes he just makes me melt, and I couldn't imagine wanting anyone more.
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reader, anonymous, writes (13 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionTo Tennisstar88 and dmartin89:
Yes, I agree with both of you about the man having the choice to walk away if he wants and to take responsibility to not pursue anything more if he wants to remain a friend.
But the woman also should bear some responsibility of being careful not to flirt with the guy, of telling him about her dates, and generally respecting boundaries. Often, I see this not being the case. Does it take extra effort? Yes. But just as much effort as the guy puts forth in surpressing his greater feelings for the female friend.
Also @Tennisstar88: Jen1689's story is an example of a guy in the "friend zone" who became something more. So your hard and fast rule of someone forever being stranded in the "friend zone" or of attraction never growing is not universally true.
It's just hard for me to fathom that attraction does not change for better or for worse once you get to know a person better: beautiful people can become repellent if they are not good people, and bland-looking folks can take on a new luster if their personalities and characters are outstanding. You have never had this experience?
Thanks for your thoughts.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): Women's sexuality is a power that they have over men.
Some women handle that power responsibly. Others do not.
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reader, tennisstar88 +, writes (12 March 2011):
A friend does take another friend's feelings into thought. However, if one friend is feeling more for that friend then it's going to complicate the friendship don't you think? Is she supposed to stay single? It really gets exhausting tiptoeing around people's feelings. I believe that the one friend is setting himself up for disappointment in the long run, if he continues to play the friend role hoping one day to be more.
The thing is no one is forcing this friendship to happen. If a guy falls into the Friend Zone he can choose to stay there and overcome his romantic feelings for his newfound female friend or he can move on to find a different woman who won't place him there.
-Reasons why I place men into the friend zone-
1. I'm NOT at all attracted to them. Initially, if you're not at all attracted to their physical exterior then NO you will not grow to love their outward beauty. I'm sorry, but physical attraction has to be there.
2. Attractive, but absolutely no chemistry. I'm talking you're not feeling the connection on the first and now last date.
3. (This one doesn't happen often) They're attractive and phenomenal personality but they're a bit too metrosexual for my taste. To me they're just one of the girls.
Do you think if a woman was initially interested she would waste time in pushing you into the Friend Zone? Hell no! The Friend Zone isn't a waiting room that you sit in and wait for your female friend (who you still like/love) to call your number.. Now that wouldn't be considerate of women. Instead the Friend Zone is what it is, a friendship. It's a very cut and dry concept. You're in it because that's what the woman offered and you accepted; mind you you didn't have to. It's on you if you want to wait and see if it will be anything more, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
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reader, dmartin89  +, writes (12 March 2011):
 I think it's about time to grow up.
I see some obvious problems with your question content.
"But then...a lot of these women place the man in the "friend zone" and begin to treat them accordingly, all the while knowing the guy likes them!" - They are treated like a friend becuase that is all they see in you. They are not attracted to you romantically. The truth is, that they would probably be fine not ever seing you again becuase they ae uncomfortable with your feelings. But of course, we have to say "can we just be friends?", because saying "Sorry, i'm not attracted to you in that way and never will be" is too harsh. What on earth are you expecting? You either be our friend or not, its not our fault that you choose to stick around when we deny your advances. You have agreed to be just friends, so accept that we are going to treat you like any other friend!
If this bothers you, then SAY SOMETHING. "Sorry, I cant just be your friend" and we will accept that. We can understand that being around someone who doesnt return your feelings is painful, but its not our responsibilty to feel guilt.
"If you are a woman who does this, how are you able to sleep at night?"
I sleep fine thanks, becuase any male friends i have know that we are just friends, otherwise something would have been done about it.
Funnily enough, I have been "friendzoned" with lots of blokes I fancied and so have my friends. We dont complain about it because there are plenty more men out there once you start looking. We dont obsess about one guy, we enjoy their friendship and let it be just that.
A woman knows when she is attracted to someone. If she is not, she never will be. Hanging around "just in case" is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Its not going to happen.
Dont want to be in the friend zone? Dont put yourself in it.
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reader, Jen1689 +, writes (12 March 2011):
My fiance used to be placed in the friend zone. Honestly, at the time I didn't think it bothered him so much. I knew he liked me, but I also knew he enjoyed my company and I enjoyed his. We had a good time. We could talk and laugh and liked the same things. But the "chemistry" or the "spark" wasn't there. Hmmm...What is that exactly? Given the fact that I had never had sex, and had only really done anything with guys who were assholes and who I didn't really enjoy being around, I guess he didn't seem like my type at the time. I was used to being treated like crap, and when I didn't put-out, I would get cheated on and dumped. It happened every time. In fact, I was dating a guy like that when I met my fiance and became his friend.Now, as far as me knowing that I was hurting him and driving him crazy: like I said, I didn't know it bothered him that much. I knew he cared about me, and he told me a few times that he wanted to try and date me, and to be honest, at times I thought he loved me, but he didn't show that he was suffering over it.Until one day we went out to see a movie and get coffee. We were getting ready to leave and this song called "Amazing Because It Is" came on his car radio (it was on a mixed CD). These lyrics came on that were, "'Cause I'm addicted. I'm needy. I'm lost without you. I need you. I need you." When he got in the car, I noticed something about him. He was sadder than usual. Those lyrics played in my head all day. When we went out for coffee, he told me that he was done with me, and couldn't just take being my friend anymore, and that it hurt too much. He told me not to contact him for anything, and that he needed time to get over me. I was a little relieved to hear this, as I didn't enjoy him constantly pushing the subject when it just wasn't there for me. I agreed, and we parted ways.Now, fast-forward about five to seven days. Those lyrics were still stuck in my head, and I finally downloaded it and listened to the song over and over again, and it made me feel the same way and think the same thing every time: he was really suffering inside by not being with me. I called him up one evening and asked to see him. We then discussed trying out dating just to see what it would be like, but nothing serious. A week later we were official and I said "I love you". A week after that I lost my virginity to him at age 20. Seven months later we were living together. I year later we moved across the country together and got engeged. You see where I'm going with this. Now, the chemistry is DEFINITELY there, and he's the most attractive person in the world to me.I think it comes down to the guy having the guts to say, "Hey, this is really killing me not being with you. You have to understand that, while I do enjoy your company, I can't keep doing this unless I can really be with you." If she cares, she'll hate knowing that she's hurting you, and she'll at least give it a shot. If she doesn't she'll agree not to see you and that will give you space to move on. The girl may be the one who puts the guy in the "Friend Zone", but the guy is who agrees to stay.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): Kudo's to Tennis star for being one of the few women I have seen that will tell a guy that once you are in the friend zone, in the friend zone is where you will stay.
It is what it is. The why's are what they are.
Since they are not going to look out for you, you must look out for yourself. At the first sign of them using you for an emotional pit stop...especially dicussing other guys with you... it is time to start backing out.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): This is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks for your replies. Cerberus-you gave the most comprehensive one and I am really appreciative of the food for thought there. You make a good point about the disingenuous motives of the guy who "uses" the friendship to get somewhere else, and is not really a friend.
BUT I still think you, Cerberus, as well as Tennisstar88, lets the girl off way too easy. A real friend should be sensitive to the other person he or she is friends with. If a girl knows this guy is really into her as more of a friend, and she just wants to be friends...then she should know that it is painful for him, and she should be sensitive to that fact.
It's true it takes two to tango. But I think both are at fault here: the guy who uses "friendship" to get somewhere else, as well as the girl who KNOWS the guy wants more yet pretends like everything is fine just being friends. I am especially fault finding of the girl who knows her "friend's" latent romantic feelings and yet still goes on about cute guys, guys she likes or dates, or her general romantic problems. How selfish can such a person be?
Also....@Tennisstar88:
Why is it that men placed in the friend zone can never get out of it? Is it not possible that from friendship can blossom love? Doesn't a person's outward beauty change once you get to know them better? I am just curious as to why this is such a hard and fast rule that once in the friend zone, always in the friend zone?
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reader, tennisstar88 +, writes (12 March 2011):
I sleep just fine at night, thank you.
A woman places a guy in the friend zone when she's just not at attracted to him, no chemistry, nada. These type of women like having male friends and often view him as one of the girls or an insight into the male world.
When we say friends, we mean it. That guy can either choose to accept the friendship and let go his feelings for the girl or just walk away from what she's offering all together. Often these guys choose to stay around because they think that being their friend will eventually pay off and they'll earn boyfriend status. This is NOT how it works. Once you're placed in the friend zone, you're trapped there's no way out.
I have done this before when I've encountered nice guys that I wasn't attracted to. They had relationship intentions whereas I offered a strictly platonic friendship. Take it or leave it. If they still had feelings for me, then most would just end up cutting off contact and turning down my friendship. Others who chose to stay (and still thing for me), that was their choice; it's not like I made them be my friend against their own free will. They knew from Day 1 that this was a friendship, nothing more.
In conclusion, these men aren't chained, gagged, and bound in the Friend Zone. They choose to semi accept the friendship because they know it's better than nothing at all.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): It's on you friend.
Here are the ABC's of getting a girl romantically.
Always
Be
Closing.
As in closing the deal.
If you want it, it is right there in front of you.
He who hesitates is lost. (Or gets put in the friend zone.)
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): You know what? Guys who get stuck in the friend zone are wusses. I know I've been that guy a few times when I was a teenager until I learned to be a man and either get what I want directly and from the start, or walk away because friendship with a girl you have feelings for doesn't work.
It's not the girls fault, why should they lose sleep over it? They only want friendship, they're not interested in romance and they usually make that clear. It's the guys fault if he decides to wait around and hope, being the woman's shoulder to cry on and watching her get with guys that she's actually interested in.
Why would they feel it's a bad thing? They're not responsible for the guys feelings and that guy pretty much always chooses to be her friend instead of losing her altogether, so it's up to the guy to look after himself. The guy always accepts this situation thinking he may be able to change it in the future or that some kind of movie-like romantic epiphany will occur to the woman and a sweeping orchestral score will kick in and she'll fall in love with him. In fact guys that do that are douchebags, trust me I was one of them. Because they want that girl. They don't want to be her friend, they're just waiting and hoping she'll fall for them too, so in that sense they're deceiving her. While she thinks that guy is her friend the reality is he's still trying to win her over. So when things come to a head which they always do, that girl feels betrayed because all that talk of friendship, all the trust she gives to that guy is all lies and is thrown away as soon as the guy loses his last bit of hope or his feelings become to heavy for him to handle.
"If you are a man who has been placed in the "friend zone" against his own wishes" Are you kidding me dude? Guys never get put into the friendzone against their wishes, never. It's always a choice and it's always the guys fault for accepting that kind of situation. I've been that guy a few times and at the time I played the victim, I did the "poor me" martyrdom crap too, but the reality is I made that choice. The girl said "friends" and I thought I'd be able to change that by being there for her and being a great friend because I wuvved her, I was stupid to think that and it's my own fault I got hurt in those situations. What's worse is all the time I was there being their "friend" I actually wanted more, so all that trust they built in me was unfounded because I was living a lie and was only settling for friendship because I thought I could deal with that, I was wrong. So this girl I supposedly loved I actually screwed over and hurt because I wasn't a friend at all.
That's how it works.
Now there are two types of guy that get stuck in the friendzone. The first is the guy that tries it on at the start and gets knocked back and told "let's just be friends" that guy then *chooses* to be her *friend* in the hopes that friendship will develop. Who's fault is that? It's certainly not the girls fault.
The second is the idiot who is too scared to make the move for whatever reason so becomes her friend instead, hoping it will just happen on its own, or waiting for the right time only to find out it's too late or she was never interested. Who's fault is that? It's certainly not the girls fault.
Now your question is about guys in the friendzone let's not forget the exact same applies to girls in that zone.
Now I may sound insulting in this entire post, I am very damning and condemning but I don't mean to offend you. I just look back at my own experience and reflect on it and I have to say I was an absolutely pathetic little slime when I was in the "friendzone" because like most other guys in that situation I blamed the girl, felt sorry for myself, looked for every other reason that the reality and even grew to resent those girls for the feelings I felt they abused. But they didn't. I did it all to myself.
My hesitation was what happened in the first one. The girl was "out of my league" or so I thought so I thought if she got to know how great I was then she might fall in love with me, wrong. The second was not understanding that when a girl says "let's just be friends" that they actually mean that's all you're ever going to be.
It's like this, either shit or get off the pot. You like a girl romantically then make that clear from the start make a move and try and get her. If she refuses then depending on her reason try again. But do not accept "being friends" ever. How hard is that? If she says "let's be friends" then say "I'm sorry but I like you too much to just be friends" that way she'll know you're interested in her and you can decide together how best to move forward. That way you're not settling for something less than what you want and there's no chance of deceiving the girl by pretending you're okay with it (convincing yourself you can do that is still pretending).
You see very often, and this is how I got caught out, girls are too afraid to hurt a guys feelings so they make up some lame, watered down, vague reason as to why they won't date a guy. You know "I'm not ready" "I'm just out of a relationship" "It's not, you it's me" they say anything except that they're not actually interested because they don't want to hurt the guy (ironic really seeing as being honest causes the least amount of pain). Guys then take this as a sign of hope, they actually really believe those words and they then feel led on when they find out the truth.
You know the last time I got friendzoned was about 16 years ago. Because the last time it happened I swore that I wasn't going to settle for friendship with a girl I had feelings for. If knocked back the first time then I try again, I'd test their reasons. If a girl is unsure then I make her sure by continuing to woo her romantically, continuing to pursue her. I don't back down to friendship and I don't take my foot off the gas, obviously I don't go overboard but I keep all our interactions from the stand point of romance not friendship. It works every time (as in we either start dating or go our separate ways because she's not interested).
It's not rocket science, it's actually fairly easy.
You like a girl:
1. Go for it early.
2. Make your intentions clear from the start and don't deviate.
3. If knocked back try again until such a time as you either start dating or she makes it clear it's never going to happen. This negates the effects of an indecisive girl or one who gives vague reasons.
4. NEVER settle for friendship, NEVER! You're heart may convince you that it's better that nothing but it's not.
5. Never, ever feel sorry for yourself nor think that a girl is out of your reach, just know when to quit and don't be afraid to quit.
Easy as hell, you either get the girl or you don't but you don't end up trapped in the friendzone.
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reader, anonymous, writes (12 March 2011): I f****** hate this. Its a game and its childish. Women like that are a waste of time to even maintain a friendship with. I've made the mistake in staying in friends zone and only because i wanted to chase, in the hope they'd come around. lol not the case... look at me now, i dont f*** around, im a serious guy who only pursues serious women.
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reader, Nichoume +, writes (12 March 2011):
Geez, I don't know where to begin. I am a middle aged woman who used to be blissfully surrounded by lovely boys, and I did EXACTLY what you're describing. . . A LOT. Here's some of my thoughts and ideas about it. Oh, wait, first off, you're a sweetie, a sensitive guy, but you hide it. You need to be proud of your human self, announce your angst, and call girls on their shit. Not in a mean way, but in a self respecting way. You must just say, "God, you're cruel, you're driving me crazy wanting to do you, and you pretend you don't know it, or you're too self absorbed to notice the hell I'm going through, I can't take this friend stuff! I want to screw you and be your boyfriend." Girls count on the guy not having the balls to say exactly what they dream of, or wish for. Actually, it's very very hot when a guy chooses passion over ego blows. Being ok with being unsure is so very cool. Always, always, tell a girl what you want as soon as you can. Something like this: " I don't want to be your brother (unless you screw him)." Trust me on this. You will either A: Get the girl. or B: Move on to the girl you will get. If you're feeling benevolent you could possibly tell the little girl (with respect and kindness) that she's a cock tease and why that's not a good thing, Please, trust me on this. Always cop to the power of a girl's charms, announce she's as powerful as she is, then ask, but do I get enough out of it? If not, move on. You deserve sex and romance. Not just friend. When I was young I sincerely didn't fully understand how I was making the guy feel. As a huge fan of maledom, this is my penance. Don't drop your desires because someone else doesn't care about or notice them. You are very @#$ important.
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