A
female
age
36-40,
anonymous
writes:Just as the topic applies, could you?I'm 23, I have a bachelors in Marketing, going back to get my Masters next year. I make decent money--have my own car, my own place, my own bills, plus splurging money. I come from a wealthy background of educated individuals. I was always taught to never date down, to never date someone without an education, and to always marry a man that made as much as me if not more. In terms of the future I'd like to be a part-time worker--once I have children and get married. So I would also not need my own savings to do this, but a man that was supportative and made enough in order for me to do this.which brings me to my current situation. My boyfriend is 25 and he makes less than I do. He pays his own bills, can take care of himself-though he is struggling from the economy and the industry he is in. He went to college for two years, but due to financial constraints he had to drop out. Now that he's 25 and the type of career he has--it basically has come to the point that he won't be able to go back to school right now. And beyond that he has expressed interest in either going into a different trade or going to the air force(he graduated Valevictorian of military school in high school).So I am basically more educated and make more than he does. I don't see that changing anytime soon, and that does bother me a tad bit. I know my parents would NOT like this dynamic at all. They have told me to marry well, and preferably someone from my class and educational background.^^I'm afraid they'll give him a hard time and not like him. And financially I'm afraid that I won't be able to have the type of extravagant lifestyle that I would like to have.But the thing is he is a great partner, supportative, loving, affectionate, we have a ton of chemistry and get along great, he's sweet, very very intelligent and wise, loyal, trustworthy, loves kids, and is very family-orientated. Basically everything I could ask for, but he lacks the income and education. And he doesn't have a desire to be as rich or as wealthy as I like(hence not having the drive I would want in a partner)What should I do? How could I get my parents to accept him? How can I move passed these concerns and are my concerns valid? Can this work?
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female
reader, BunnyTee +, writes (12 June 2010):
 VERY WELL SAID, Poster. I applaud you, resoundingly. I have a better grasp on your dilemma now, so thank you for investing the time and effort.
I understand what you're saying much better. I think it all comes down to: what can you handle, what can you deal with? How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?
I can tell you that marrying down (I hesitate to use the verbiage only b/c I myself, abhor that style of thinking as though it's a lower rung, unworthy person) is one tough forty miles of bad road, compounded with high interest by your family turning on you for it. Again, think it through. It's not easy being an outcast heretic. I still don't have all the issues and kinks worked out of the lines with my own family. They STILL hold it against me, I think they will forever.
But I've survived it and I struck out on my own to pursue my own path, made my own career and live a quiet, comfortable life in an extremely rural place, telecommuting to NYC from my own well-appointed home office. So it CAN be the way you want it(I was startled by your details of what you want to achieve b/c you're describing my life! Though I'm not an author-I'm an evil, cunning stock broker) You carve it out yourself, your own way. It's a high price you can pay for it. But I've lived to tell the tale, thus far. So you CAN do this, just be prepared to pay a costly price for it in terms of familial acceptance. Only you know how your family will truly react, I'm not prophesying that you'll be cast out from them, but it's a distinct possibility. It's no picnic, but when is anything worthwhile easy? I say follow your heart but use your head and good luck to you in so doing!
A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): Hello Bunny Tee,
Thank you for that long response.
Though you took my comments completely out of context.
I loathe the mentality that my family and MANY people within the upper-class have toward money and other material aspects. I loathe the fact that for many, a marriage is a business arrangement not based on any foundation other then the type of occupation one has, the income one makes, the car one drives and so on. That has been a majority of my experiences when dealing with family friends and even my mother at one point. I was always told to not date or marry down for the reason that I should be "taken care of" by a man and that I need to pass the family name on and be wealthy and rich.
Due to this mentality and mindset that was passed on to me, it has been ingrained in me that anything less than making six figures, obtaining an occupation in a highly prestigious field, and/or marrying well IS failure.
I've been taught to judge a person not by character but by what they wear, who they know, how much money they have. I've been brought up to feel entitled to certain things and
I could go on and on but the gist is that for 23 years this is what has been placed in my head. And it wasn't until watching my parents marriage fall apart because of material things and money, dealing with a majority of elitist snobs, realizing that I WAS an elitist snob, being told I couldn't be a teacher(even though I wanted) because it didn't pay enough, being told I could date "this or that" person because they weren't wealthy enough and then this economy--well I've come to realize that I loathe it all. And I don't like the mentality I have, but after it being ingrained in me for so long I find it hard to completely isolate myself from it and the lifestyle.
Don't get me wrong there are certain perks and skills that can be attributed to the materialistic values my parents have taught me. But through years of feeling like a failure, and feeling unhappy, I've come to the conclusion that my true happiness would be to pursue my passion(writing), get away from it all(living on a farm, or rural community) and tapping to my own tune.
All of this is a work in progress and NOT something that will happen over night. In addition all of that is the MAIN reason as to why I seem to have issues dating the type of man that could easily be on the same page as me financially and education wise. Many of these men that I've met embody the very thing that I'm TRYING to escape.
Being honest with myself, no I don't expect to completely escape what has been ingrained in me, but as a whole and in comparision to my sisters who are MUCH worse than I am, I am SLOWLY becoming my own person. However again it is a work in process one that I still struggle with. Hence the reason I posed this question--a part of me can't escape the idea of feeling like a failure in my parents eyes and in terms of what I know for doing what I WANT to do instead of what MY society and my family has told me to do.
In terms of the bf. He isn't trailer park trash. He is a hardworking individual. He comes from a middle class family. And I think that is probably what he is comfortable with. It wouldn't be such an issue with me if it wasn't an issue with my parents or with what I've been taught.
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A
female
reader, BunnyTee +, writes (11 June 2010):
THAT is NOT the American way. That's the definition of "entitlement-minded". Debase, devalue, discard dignity.
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A
female
reader, BunnyTee +, writes (11 June 2010):
You had me believing in you right up to your very last response paragraph. So who told you here were "classes"? The social caste system isn't an American institution, sweetheart.
Though it may be alive and well in other countries, at present: the manufactured illusion of social classes is done as part of an agenda to create class warfare. An "us against them" loathsome mentality used to maintain and consolidate power among a few at the top. It can be reduced to a :do as I say, not as I do "rule" (It's really nothing but the blatant hypocrisy they so-often accuse others of) There are NO "classes" in reality, unless you make a distinction between those who seek to better their situation using the means available and adding in some personal accountability and self-motivation OR those who prefer to adopt the genuine entitlement mentality, wait for the hand outs cleverly called hand-ups in the form of welfare checks. Or subsidized housing and related ilk that is genuinely designed to form a permanent "under class" to remain dependent upon those hand outs? The creating and sustaining that "under class" forms the solid base that gives those select few an on-going foundation upon witch to work from. Now that is a legitimate distinction. The later has an artificially induced, third party-motivated craving to hear you claim to loathe the background some else has worked so hard to give you. Very, very similar to the same dynamic at work back in the nutted-out, psycho sixties.
If you genuinely loathe your background and all it's evil entrapping and entitlement-mindedness, then why are you so intent upon continuing to maintain it's reviling conspicuous consumption and ways? Do you plan to sit and loathe if from the back of your Rolls limo? If it's all so bad, then why would you not seek to discard it and take a vow of poverty to celebrate your renouncing and separation from such self-made, high achieving a$$holes and their awful, unfair, an inequitable society? Really make your statement solid by marrying some beer-gut slob in a wife-beater tank sitting in a seedy trailerpark waiting on the well-earned entitlement check?
The system that allowed your family to make it's own way out of the murky depths of merely "getting by" is a beautiful thing; you're claiming you want to reap the benefits of it while also insisting it is loathsome. You want it both ways? You embrace the benefits yet reject the means to obtain same? For example, Barbara Streisand advocating that *you* must hang your laundry to dry on a clothesline, just how many of her designer, high end gowns are hanging on a clothesline? This is "do as I say, not as I do" This is flagrant contradiction. You must decide this and settle it now before moving onto men and relationships. Otherwise, you're creating a circular argument for yourself. You're also allowing yourself to adopt an artificial viewpoint maintained by those with absolutely no command of logic or idea of cause and effect. Examine these things closely. Use your head. Open your eyes and *see*.
It is entirely unfair and unrealistic to marry a man who has plainly told you that he is satisfied with a certain level of mediocrity, and you have no intentions of doing the same. It's not going to change, magically, down the road somewhere. Further, expecting or hoping that he will bust ass to try to give you what you want as a life is actively dominating and monopolizing his time and efforts to the point of abusive and cruel. And also very wrong.
It is not my intent to get off into the weeds of debate on the manufactured concept of class warfare and related sub topics, but it IS relevant to your dilemma. See it for what it really is, not because somebody just changed the name in hopes that you'll be stupid enough to buy into it their agenda, unwittingly. Stay smart. Be informed. SEE things for what they really are without the idealogical-coating and take your best shot. KNOW what you believe and why.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): Hello,
I'm the person who posted this topic.
Thank you for all the replies. Bunny Tee--that is what I'm afraid of. Though he is very hardworking and a natural leader--at every job he's had he's basically been a manager or promoted to one even without a college degree. The issue is that he has told me flat out that he isn't going to be rich--that he will be comfortable but not rich, it just isn't his priority. If he did become rich then so be it, but it isn't a big deal to him. For some reason that bothered me. I'm very money motivated.
And yes right now my bf makes about half of what I make... So it does concern me a tad bit.
On the other hand he was raised to take care of his family, and to be a provider. Just not to provide in the capacity that I want him to unfortunately.
His lifestyle is different from mine, but I do have family who are in the same income bracket and social class as he is so I'm used to it and that doesn't bother me that much. What bothers me is my family not approving and us not being a good match in terms of our goals toward finances and education.
However in terms of what I want to do--in the future I do want to be a novelist on a farm (LOL) so my goals aren't too "out there", it's just right now I'm in money-making mode and he is not.
The sad thing is I've met plenty of men that are my equal--education and financially but God do they turn me off they're are nothing but arrogant, cocky a-holes who think they are entitled to the world. I really loathe the class I'm from and the mentatality I've adopted but for some reason I can't escape it.
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A
female
reader, Gabrielle Stoker +, writes (11 June 2010):
 BunnyTee hits the nail right on the head, y'know. Parents can be convinced (or ignored, if it comes to that), but fundamental differences in ambition levels and background sometimes cannot. It seems you have certain doubts already. Please do some serious introspection before you decide (and it will have to be YOUR decision) whether you are sure you want to go ahead and over-ride your family concerns.
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A
female
reader, BunnyTee +, writes (11 June 2010):
I can tell you you're probably going to catch some flak just from disclosing your background without apology. That won't be from me because my own background is very similar to your own. Problem was: I married the first time, a guy who made less than 50% of what I did (at the time I made $49.5K a year), he had barely an H/s education(I hold an MBA) and as it turned out zero upward motivation. My parents, grand parents, aunts, uncle the whole well-heeled tribe had hysterical fits, disowned me, branded me a colossal idiot and promptly tried to forget that I drew breath. Turns out, he was the worst decision I ever made. I was madly in love with the guy but he was just from so different a world than I knew that it turned into an absolute disaster. So I unloaded him and am now married to a man who, on his worst day, is still my full equal.
I offer this in the interest of being smart, and being cautious. KNOW what you're getting yourself into before you get into it.
While I don't advocate disparaging meager beginnings. I DO know that it can be very difficult, coming from a privileged background and then attempting to align yourself intimately, with someone who has no frame of reference for it. It's also difficult after a while not to develop disdain for the guy if he's happy to remain uneducated and unmotivated. So make your best decision but take it all into account before you do.
Consider this: Until I went to college, I had never been to a public school, not once. All I knew was a high end, private boarding school. The girls I went to school with all came from my same type of familial background, we knew nothing else. People who weren't raised this way can't relate to your experiences or style of living. My ex in-laws hated me because I had never been exposed to a style of life like theirs. I've heard all the names, all the disparaging comments the whole thing that comes with the resentment of your background, it goes with the territory. Anyhoo, eyes wide open, think it through and consider what you can and will deal with. Let the inevitable flak bounce off you, it usually dies down, once they figure out that you're a human being, too, just from a not-so-common upbringing. Take your best shot but know what you're getting into first! I've been there, done that.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (11 June 2010): Of course it can work, and it should work, especially since he's 'a great partner, supportative, loving, affectionate, we have a ton of chemistry and get along great, he's sweet, very very intelligent and wise, loyal, trustworthy, loves kids, and is very family-orientated. Basically everything I could ask for, but he lacks the income'
With all the respect in the world to your parents, they've done you a huge disservice by bringing you up to have that kind of attitude. You're in danger of really screwing up a good thing because of it. I've no doubt you're a nice person, it sounds like you probably are. But you NEED to seriously discard that mind-set. It might cause you a lot of grief. You're 23. It is absolutely none of your parents' business who you choose to go out with, and their disapproval should be the least of your concerns.
Nothing at all wrong with aspiring to look after yourself as best you can financially, but it becomes toxic if you start to value people's qualities by reference to how much money they make rather than what kind of personalities they have. This isn't your fault, it's something your parents have done to you. I'm not implying that they're bad people or want anything other than the best for their daughter, but I think this is one area where you really have to take on board the possibility that their attitude is seriously mistaken and you would do very well not to adopt it yourself.
I would be very turned off if a prospective partner had that sort of attitude towards money and status, and I would see it as a major character flaw. I think most sensible people would. I would implore you not to ruin a perfectly good thing by obsessing over his perceived financial shortcomings. If he was a waster with no ambition in life beyond getting his next welfare cheque to supply his weekly beer expenditure, then you might have a point. But this guy sounds like he's smart and is doing his best to get by. You should be supportive of him. Give him a break, and give yourself a break. Ditch the $$$$$ worldview. There's a LOT more to life.
Good luck to you both.
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A
female
reader, KeighleySky  +, writes (10 June 2010):
 What would you prefer, a man who is more interested in his wokring life than the one you two have together, or this man who gives you everything he can. It doesn't matter what your parents think, their not going to be with him-you are. If they dont like it then they should just accept that you love him and leave you be.
Don't throw this away because he isnt a work-a-holic x
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A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (10 June 2010): Tell your parents to stop being so chauvanistic and get into the 21st century.
Women traditionally used to expect to marry at their level or upwards because they also traditionally had little earning power compared to men.
Now women expect the right to make equal money to men and they have been steadily closing the pay gap for decades. So with that new right comes a new responsibility. Women have to start being willing to marry down as often as they marry up.
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