A
male
age
30-35,
anonymous
writes:I have been talking to all the girls in my class who all happen to have significant others and they all call me the nicest guy they have ever metSome of the girls say that any girl would be lucky to have me and that I'm too good for just any girl. Yet, here I am single can't get a date to save my life. Am i missing something, that they are seeing, but not telling me?What image could I be portraying to the single girls out there? or is it that nice guys really do finish last and girls just want that douche bag? Reply to this Question
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male
reader, justaguy71  +, writes (15 October 2012):
Hennessy has it right, its about the friend zone, don't get into it unless you want to, look at girls you like as they are your future lovers, not friends.
A
male
reader, anonymous, writes (15 October 2012): Being a good person and being sexy are totally unrelated.
They aren't even opposites. There is just no link between them at all.
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A
female
reader, shrodingerscat +, writes (15 October 2012):
 I've already posted this to another poster who claimed to be a "Nice Guy".
It's not written by me, but by a friend of mine that goes by the screen name "Lady_Air"
I hear over and over again how hard done by "nice guys" are. How women always go for assholes. How women won't give men who treat them decently the time of day. How the only way to get a woman is to abuse her, and the only way to keep a woman is to keep abusing her. How women don't appreciate honesty, loyalty, consideration, respect, etc.
These complaints are coming from the "nice guys," of course.
The first thing I'd like to point out is the biases in perception occurring here: confirmation bias, for example, where people choose information that supports their belief. Every time a "nice guy" hears about a woman with a man who treats her poorly it "proves" their point. All the women who are NOT with a man who treats them badly don't register. Plus, people don't complain about being treated well, so you don't hear about it. There are all kinds of information selection and perception biases going on that most people aren't even aware of. (Everyone has them, by the way; look up "full moon fallacy" for example.) Any time you hear of a behavioural stereotype based on something like gender or race, you're probably dealing with cognitive errors.
Secondly, in my own experience, these claims aren't being made by happy men in loving relationships-- they're being made by unhappy men in bad relationships or no relationships. There's an emotional motivation to find fault with the other. A man sees a woman choosing someone else-- someone who in the unselected male's opinion is not a "nice guy"-- and feels rejection and resentment. It's human nature to want to avoid feeling unwanted; it's scapegoating to claim that the selection was based on some inherent fault or flaw on the part of the selector.
There's also a lot of gender tension because the perception is that women control the sex-- it's up to the woman to say 'yes' or 'no' because it's assumed the man's default answer is always 'yes.' That's not true, of course; not every man has pre-agreed to have sex with anyone who wants to. But it is a prevalent gender stereotype, and it's inevitable that those who are perceived to be in control will be blamed for the existing conditions. If a man isn't getting any, it's because a woman won't 'give' it to him. There's a lot of anger and resentment on the part of men as a result; from a woman's perspective, it's terrifying. I don't think all the "nice guys" out there really get that: the whole issue of entitlement, anger, and misogyny that women have to deal with on a regular basis. I've had more "nice guys" react with hostility and emotional violence because I wouldn't give them what they thought I 'owed' them (generally because they said something 'nice' to me and I didn't immediately flop onto my back and spread for them) than guys who started out nasty right off the bat. Even a polite "no thank you" has generated, on more than one occasion, a "fuck you, bitch" response. From "nice guys."
I'm sure there are a lot of nice guys out there saying, "well. I would never respond that way," but what they're missing is that when they claim women want to be treated poorly because a woman doesn't feel obligated to give it up just because someone is being "nice" that's exactly what they're saying: fuck you, bitch.
And then there's the whole definition of "nice." Nice has got to be the worst word in the world for actually describing anything. Does nice mean polite? Does it mean chivalrous? Does it mean just not beating and raping someone? All these "nice guys" who are complaining-- do they even know what they mean by "nice?" Or is it just an easy default? A guy who insists on opening the door and pulling out my chair for me may think he's being "nice," but I don't see it that way if he also dismisses my intellect and my opinion, which is what a lot of so-called "chivalry" can amount to. Let me open my own damn door and treat me like an intellectual equal and I'll personally consider that a hell of a lot closer to my definition of "nice."
The problems are endless.
But it's scary. It's frightening to live in an environment where others feel entitled and "owed." It's frightening to hear all these "nice guys" talk with resentment and contempt about how a woman only wants to be treated badly. It's frightening to answer someone politely and have them respond with anger or petulance because "no" is not a permissible answer. It's especially frightening to be on a site like Fetlife, where one's sexuality is front and centre, and all the vulnerability that goes with it, with that environment of hostility. It's frightening to live in a blame-the-victim culture when one IS the victim. And sorry, nice guys, but when a woman is abused SHE is the victim, not you.
Personally, I think as soon as a "nice guy" starts complaining that women won't give him what he wants because he treats them like real human beings, he has fundamentally contradicted himself; when he states, out of resentment and frustration, that all women want to be treated badly, he stops being a "nice guy" and starts being a misogynist.
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Just like you would require your partner to be more than just "nice", women require you to be more than just "nice" to be a suitable boyfriend. You need to have a lot of good qualities, not just one. In the end, you could have a host of bad qualities that prevent you from getting a girlfriend, and one of those that I can tell you for sure is the fact that you really think that "women want that douchebag".
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A
male
reader, Hennessy1989  +, writes (15 October 2012):
 The truth is that your being too nice and getting yourself in the friend zone, once your in there your never getting out, it's not that nice guys finish last, it's that you need to state your intentions earlier, of u like a girl make sure she knows about it, flirt with her, ask her out, if your not doing anything like this then the girls just think you want to be there friend and you slip into the friend zone. Also a lot of girls like a bad boy, so play it cool, don't over do it when it comes to being nice
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