A
male
age
41-50,
*elthuzad8888
writes:I have known my wife for 3 years and a half, we met while working in the same company. Since then she has left and joined two other companies.We do have the usual arguments now and then which we can handle. However there is one thing that I felt is driving a big wedge in my feelings, that is her attitude towards work.When we were in the same company, she always complained about her boss and working hours. It got to the point that she was crying about it every week. We will be going out on weekends and sometimes she will just break into tears, and when I asked her, she said she is thinking of her work.I pleaded with her to resign, which she did. First few months into the new company, she started complaining about her colleagues and working hours. Whenever we chatted at night, she will bring up her work, why she feel unhappy and said she don't feel motivated to work. It not only happened at night, during work hours, she will sms me with messages like 'demotivated', 'wish i can faster leave this place'...I was alarmed with her negativity and suggested that she might be depressed. Soon she left and joined another company. Now she is complaining about her boss and her work tasks, and I begin to see a pattern here. I suggested if she never change her attitude towards work life, she will never be happy. That got her mad and sad, so I did not push it.Things got to a tipping point recently, when I was fetching her from work. Minutes after she got in my car, she said she do not wish to work there anymore. Earlier in the afternoon, she sms me saying she is demotivated. I couldn't take it anymore and asked her, why can't she stop complaining about work. Sometimes, just sometimes, can we just leave the issues at the office and have a non-work related conversation? We are all tired from work, so shouldn't after work hours, we be happy and enjoy each others companionship without work issues?Is it not enough that work has already occupied 45 hours of our week?She got upset at me, and said she has the right to complain. The thing is, we are sure to talk about her work issues every single day, and she will always say she is not happy. Even when I at work, i get these heart-wrenching sms from her. For these 3 years over 3 companies, I have done all of it, passive listening, gently advising, lecturing, and sometimes I even got harsh with her. She will get better a bit sometimes or get upset sometimes, but it will all start again.I do not know how to keep this up any longer. I just want her to be happy. Work is only a small fragment of our life, we have got so much to enjoy and appreciate in this world. Why can't she see that?She even made me promise that when I earn a particular sum of income, she can retire and be a house wife. I am alright with that if that makes her happy. Even knowing that, she still comes home and get depressed over her work. I do not want her to be sad, I do not want her work to be an all-consuming presence in our life.Appreciate if any of you could give your point of view. Am I the selfish and uncaring one here? I can understand if complains about work are done occasionally, but to this extent? I just need some fresh angle on this.Thanks.
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male
reader, kelthuzad8888 +, writes (30 May 2011):
kelthuzad8888 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionThanks chocoholicforever for your answers and feedbacks, very insightful.
She is not willing to go for professional help, it seems out of the question. In Asia, people still think that shrinks are for people that are mentally unstable, they are not as widely accepted as in the States.
So the next best step I am thinking is for us to go for a motivational camp.
Anyway, I have obtained some perspectives here, Thank you very much for all those who replied!
A
female
reader, chocoholicforever  +, writes (25 May 2011):
I also wanted to add, when you said:
"I have suggested to her to either find professional help or else we sit down together to discuss her goals and what actions to take to achieve it."
My opinion is that, it would be much better for her to get professional help - a therapist for her emotional/dissatisfaction issues, or a career counselor to figure out if she needs a different kind of job.
I personally don't think you should be the one to "sit down with her to discuss her goals and actions." I mean, normally I would think this is healthy for spouses to do because it's healthy to consult each other about major career issues.
But in your situation I don't think so, because in your situation this is central to the problem. if you were to do this there is the tendency that now it is YOUR responsibility if her next job didn't turn out well, because you are the one who "led" the discussion and counseled her.
In your situation, if you were to sit down with her and discuss her goals etc, you are taking on the role of being her mentor or counselor. But you've already been trying to play this role for the last 3 years and it didn't work. So, I would say now it's time for someone else to take that role - a professional. You may say that well now she's changed so it will be different. Maybe, but maybe not and if not then you're just backsliding into the status quo. So I personally think that you should distance yourself from her process of learning to deal with her problems, so that you don't end up trying to do her work for her (because that has been your pattern in the past).
Then, when she has made progress with that on her own, THEN you and her can talk about it together.
that's just my opinion.
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A
female
reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (25 May 2011):
"Have I been too harsh? I was broken-hearted to see her cry like that, I wonder if it's worth it. But then, is the current pain now necessary to alleviate future pains?"
No you were not too harsh with her at all!! I think you handled the situation very well and showed a lot of compassion and understanding to her. And I think her negative reaction is completely normal and to be expected. Yes it seems as if the relationship is more "painful" now because of this, but the alternative of the status quo was not sustainable, this had to happen. This is a step in the right direction towards her learning to deal with her issues proactively, and then the improving the relationship.
But this is only the first step, which is you taking a stand for your own needs. Whether more positive steps continue or not is up to her. Now it's up to her to take responsibility and make positive changes in her life, and it's up to you to not backslide and fall back into YOUR old patterns of behavior of letting her dump all her problems on you (unless you want that)....
Again, you were NOT too harsh with her at all. You can think of it as "tough love". In fact you were very compassionate, so don't let her make you feel bad by her dramatic emotionality. Like you told her - there are so many people who have far worse life situations than her, and she is crying because you are insisting on your need to have a break from her??
Basically this is what happened in that interaction, according to you:
She claimed she "only" wants someone to listen to her and nothing else. Yeah right!! So you gave her the FACTS which is what has actually been happening for the past few years. these are facts, you are not making things up. You were not being insulting to her, or anything, you were simply giving her neutral information.
As a result of you pointing out the facts, she then accused you of not wanting to listen to her. She responded to neutral information (unless you said it in a negative tone, which I'm assuming you didn't), by getting personal and trying to make you feel bad. This is typical of what she had always been doing, which is blaming others around her. It's never her fault, it's always someone else's fault. In this case she's blaming you, because blaming others is such an ingrained pattern in her.
You then lost your temper, which under these circumstances is completely normal and to be expected and is the very reason WHY her behavior must change. This was just the last straw, up until now you were like a pressure vessel waiting to burst and now you finally did. This is why you had to take a stand, because clearly it's really affecting you so much because not only have you been sacrificing your sanity for her for 3 years, but now she is refusing to even acknowledge it and make you a 'bad guy.' Any person in your situation would have lost their temper. In fact most people would have lost their temper way sooner than you! Do not feel bad about this. You are completely normal. And this is exactly why her behavior needs to change. What she is doing is unhealthy for the relationship because it affects you so negatively.
She then starts crying?? Whether it's her bitching and moaning about her work, or crying when you stand up to her, she's just resorting to the ingrained tactics she has always done which is using her negative emotionality to get you to do what she wants. She just doesn't know how else to deal with her problems, so she needs to learn how. And she will never learn how if she doesn't "have" to. And she won't "have" to if she can still succeed using her old tactics. Therefore, don't feel bad about this and don't second guess yourself, this is a further sign that she REALLY needs to learn how to take care of herself like a responsible adult. And by standing up to her, even when she's crying, you are helping her to learn more effective ways to deal with her issues, by not allowing her to succeed in her old ways anymore.
Then what followed was a back-and-forth exchange about whether she did all she could, or not, and whether she needs this kind of job or that kind, whether she should do this, or that...etc etc....I would suggest that you try not to get sucked into this anymore. For your entire married life you have given her all the advice you know of, til you are blue in the face. Where has it led to until now? nothing. Up until now she hasn't been interested in the content of your advice. She just wanted you to "help" her "problem solve" because it's a way to get and keep your attention and make her feel better by having your attention focused on her while she continues to not take responsibility for her own problems.
Since up til now she obviously was never interested in the content of your advice... so, don't get sucked into an endless "discussion" of details over what she should or should not do, anymore. Once you do, then it's a slippery slope backwards and before you know it she's once again bitching and moaning to you and you've fallen back into your old role of having to be subjected to it.
If now she is starting to truly change and want to change, then you can help her a bit by engaging in some discussion about her job situation, but I would caution you to not stay in such a discussion if it drags on and on because then it could backslide and degenerate into her bitching about her problems to you rather than truly trying to do something on her own. Old habits die hard, and if she is to change it won't happen over night. So, expect that there will be the tendency for her to slip back into her old patterns. So you should be careful to not let that happen by you not slipping back into YOUR old patterns (of listening to her and trying endlessly to "help" her by giving advice etc). You can still listen and discuss with her for awhile if she seems genuinely focused on problems-solving, but you put a time limit on it and then you uphold that and politely end the conversation so it doesn't degenerate into old patterns.
I think you were absolutely right to suggest that she seek professional help. It could be from a therapist to help her deal with her emotional distress. Or from a career counselor if she really wants to work on the details of what kind of job she needs (as opposed to the underlying emotional issues, but which would still also be a step in a positive direction).
I understand that you feel even more uncomfortable now because of the huge negative reaction from her. This is normal because you have basically stood up to her for the first time in your married life and protected your personal boundaries. So of course she's freaking out that you're not meekly going along with what she wants anymore and being her crutch. Up til now she's been so used to selfishly using you to take care of her immediate emotional needs, she's completely not used to thinking about your needs.
So now when you finally stood up for yourself, it's completely normal that she's offended and upset hence her crying. What's also normal is if she retaliates against you and tries to coerce you (by guilt tripping you or crying at you and trying to make you feel bad) into going back to being her crutch. It's normal that she will try even harder to get you to continue what you used to do, she may cry more at you, guilt-trip you even more, etc. She doesn't like having to take responsibility since she's not used to it so of course she doesn't want to do it. But whether she does or not, you cannot go on living the way you were which is having her dump all her problems on you without regard for your own needs. Whether she wants to take responsibility for her own job or not, is up to her but you need to have your own boundaries respected, for your own sanity, because the way things were before was just not sustainable.
At least this way, even if things feel really uncomfortable for you (which is normal), you know that you have made a change in the relationship by setting new terms and standing up for your own needs. Now it's up to her if she wants to make a positive change in her life and in the relationship.
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A
male
reader, kelthuzad8888 +, writes (17 May 2011):
kelthuzad8888 is verified as being by the original poster of the questionHi all,
thanks for all your thoughts and proposals, it has been very helpful. Some of what you were saying has resonated with my own thoughts as well.
Yes, I do realize that earning a five-figure salary is not a solution for the issue, nor is changing her job.
Things came to a blow recently, when she talked about her job issues on a public holiday at home.
I tried giving her advice on how to handle the situation, but somehow the situation deteriorated to us arguing and her crying.
She said that she only wanted someone to listen to her complaints and nothing else. I told her that it's not just this occasion that I was referring to, but her entire pattern and approach for the past 3 years.
She then complained that I don't want to listen to her work issues. That really did it for me, and I blew my top, saying that I had been listening, giving my advice, sometimes scolding; I have done all I possibly could, even replying to her sms during work and giving her assurance that she can stop working when I earn enough money, is that not enough things to look forward for her?
She got upset and started crying. I told her that this gonna repeat unless we go to the source and solve it at the root, I do not want work to influence our life and relationship, which it already is doing now.
I said that my work has never been an influence in our life and relationship and I just want her to be happy as I couldn't bear to see her unhappy like this always.
She said that she do not wish this upon herself, and I suggested to her that maybe she can change her approach and mindset towards working life. After all, there were far more unlucky people in far worse working environment than her, and they can find the time to be happy too.
She really got upset at this, I suppose I said the wrong thing, what do you think?
I then said we need to solve the root cause, since it's been like this for her past 3 jobs. She said she can't help it if it happens to her. I then ask why is she really unhappy at work, she mentioned that the job is not right for her. Then why not know yourself and what you want first? She said she knew what job she wanted.
Then, what has she done to get that dream job? She started playing the victim, saying that she has already done all she could. I asked then, besides searching job boards and headhunters, what other serious effort she has put in? Going for exams? Looking for ways to incorporate new skills that she wanted in her current job?
She got upset and repeatedly asked what else could she have done? I said the answer is with you, I just telling that nobody going to help you if you just sit there and whine.
Then, she said she just wanted a simpler job with lower pay and less stress? I asked any guarantee that job will not cause you so much stress? She said it's obvious simpler jobs will not be as stressful as high-profile ones.
Again, I asked, what serious effort has she put in to look for that simpler job, she again repeated that she has done all she could. She asked me, then, what else she could be doing?
She got more and more upset, I do not think the discussion was going anywhere, so we agreed to a cooling period.
Have I been too harsh? I was broken-hearted to see her cry like that, I wonder if it's worth it. But then, is the current pain now necessary to alleviate future pains?
I have suggested to her to either find professional help or else we sit down together to discuss her goals and what actions to take to achieve it. She said give her time to think things over, and I said I trust her not to sweep the issue aside and will really think about it.
Have I done things wrongly here, I may have been too harsh or used the wrong words here. Please let me know what you think of this development.
Thanks.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (8 May 2011): tell your wife that she needs counseling or therapy because she sounds like she hates her life. there's nothing you can do for her that will make her happy because her problem is her attitude. she also sounds pretty selfish because she demands to be the center of your attention all the time, the whole marriage revolves around her moaning about her life and her misery. was she like this before you got married? if so, why did you marry her??and don't believe for a second that even if you made a ton of money so she could forever quit the workforce that it would solve her problems. I bet she would still be miserable as a housewife, just that it would be something different. so I hope you're not working your ass off trying to make more money to financially support her. you will find the goal posts will shift the more you try to help.
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (6 May 2011): I can almost place a HUGE bet on the fact that even as a housewife she will still moan and be 'demotivated', yes you will still get the texts messages it probably wont stop.....
She has been unhappy in several jobs but the one constant factor here is 'her'...She has changed bosses a few so one can safely say the problem isnt just the job but her as an individual except of course she keeps getting jobs she doesnt really want to do but I very much doubt that....It's time to persuade her to get professional help....Something aint right here and please dont leave it too long(I really do mean any much longer, 3 years is quite a bit of time for this to have been going on), as it will probably take a toll on your relationship with each other, and I'm sure it is already taking it's toll on you(anxiously waiting or expecting one of her 'demotivated' texts)....Being around a negative person can be draining.....Maybe it is her way of keeping herself the 'center of attention' in the relationship: I mean you are probably always busy trying to make her happy, console her, fawning and fussing over her, etc cos of her work 'stress'....She is a tad bit self-centred and she needs to suck it up and grow up.....She aint the only one working there now is she??....Have you got any kids???...If not can you imagine how stressfull raising a child will be for her??? and please dont add going to work and raising a child or that will be some heaven know what word she'll coin to text you about the state of afairs......Maybe in some way you have enabled her behaviour without meaning to by the way you handle her alledged work stress.....You need to in loving asertive way get her to seek help professionally...There is more to this than just 'work issues' or feeling 'demotivated' as she prefers to coin it, more like her own inate demons, work is only a diversion or channel away from the real truth.
Maybe I sound a bit harsh but sometimes the truth ain't always pretty..I wish you all the best and you do sound like a kind gentle man(maybe that is part of the problem, you too easy to manipulate so as to make her 'central diva')......
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A
female
reader, anonymous, writes (5 May 2011): sorry to say this but your wife sounds like an immature and inconsiderate brat. I've known people like her. People who seem to quit jobs at the drop of a hat, everything is a huge problem. One friend of mine also had 4 jobs in 5 years - she didn't get laid off, she quit each one. One of those jobs, after she quit, she went to another one, then quit that one and tried to go back to the first one and they actually took her back, and then she quit them a second time. the last I heard, she's now jobless because no employer will hire her anymore given her flaky job history so she's pressuring her husband to make more money so she doesn't have to work but can have the comfortable lifestyle and financial security she wants.
such people can never be satisfied. they have unrealistic expectations, and low frustration tolerance for when their expectations are not met. the more you try to help her, the more she will resist being helped because she's addicted to her own misery.
I'm sorry to say but you can't help her anymore. Now it's time to do what you need to do to protect your own sanity so she doesnt' drag you down with her. every time she complains, hijack the conversation by turning it into your own complaint about some other topic. Do this every time she complains. Show her just how annoying and unpleasant it is. but don't instigate it, only do it when she is complaining first so there's a clear pattern to the consequences. if she doesn't start complaining, you won't hijack her topic of conversation. But if she does, then you will. better yet, you're taking back some control of the situation rather than letting her dictate that every minute of your time together is going to revolve around her misery regardless of how you feel.
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A
female
reader, chocoholicforever +, writes (5 May 2011):
No you are not the one who is selfish and uncaring - she is. Don't get me wrong, she is suffering a lot of anxiety and angst that's for sure, but she's not taking responsibility for her own feelings or solving her own problems like a responsible adult, instead she's making it into your problem and making it your responsibility to deal with it.
you are right that there is a pattern to her work related distress. It sounds like she has some personal issues and it's not just that the boss is bad or the job is bad. some people are chronically depressed or chronically anxious or have other issues that they haven't learned to deal with effectively so no matter what job they take, the same old issues come up. But they are not self-aware enough (at least not yet) to realize that the problem is actually within themselves and instead point the blame at others around them.
Some times the environment really is the problem. There are toxic work environments and bosses and co-workers. But for her, it's been a pattern since she's changed jobs so many times and yet it always seems to be the same distress. what are the chances that every single job she's taken, is a toxic work environment? more likely, she is the problem since she's the common denominator in all the jobs. Maybe she has bad communication skills and this leads to conflicts at work. Maybe she has bad time management skills and thus gets behind. Maybe she has an inflated sense of entitlement and thus feels mistreated by every boss...or maybe she's just ill-suited for the kind of career she chose....the possibilities are endless, but she needs to figure out what it is about herself that's leading to such distress in every job. by just jumping from job to job she's running away from the problem rather than dealing with it directly.
"She got upset at me, and said she has the right to complain."
she has the right to feel however she wants, but she doesn't have the right to chronically burden you against your will just because you're married to her.
She's an adult, she needs to learn how to deal with her problems and not be relying on you all the time to make herself feel better in the short-term (while the actual problem goes unchanged so it will always be more of the same tomorrow). It's not fair to you because it creates a very one-sided relationship, it is taking it's toll on you, and it's not healthy because it infuses the relationship with negativity which eventually erodes intimacy. There's nothing wrong with complaining to your spouse when you're upset in general because part of having a good relationship is being able to share the ups and downs. However, if it is chronic and extreme with no signs of positive change on the horizon and very one-sided which seems to be the case here, then it crosses a line.
One does not have a right to demand (key word is the demand, as in not giving you a choice) that their spouse always get involved in their personal problems especially if it's wearing down their spouse. She is bitching to you every single day, and on weekends, and even when you are at work, and this has been going on for years. it looks like she's using you to try and temporarily make herself feel better (by venting to you or expecting you to comfort her) but she's not taking responsibility in addressing the underlying problem which is why she's always so upset to begin with. She's making her problem into your responsibility, which is not fair and will drain the life out of the relationship as it's starting to do now.
"She even made me promise that when I earn a particular sum of income, she can retire and be a house wife. I am alright with that if that makes her happy."
Unless she's joking about making you make that promise, she is again making you responsible for her problems and her happiness which is unfair not good for the relationship. she wants you to save her so she can avoid her problems. Just as she chronically uses you to take care of her immediate emotional problems (complaining to you all the time, even when you're at work, getting angry if you want a break) without regard for how it's affecting you, now she's also making it your responsibility whether or not she ever becomes happy in the future.
She needs to take responsibility for her own mental and emotional health, for finding out why she's always so upset and miserable, rather than blaming everyone around her, and then demanding that it's your responsibility to make her feel better.
Perhaps she's unaware that she's doing this, perhaps she just needs to learn better relationship skills. So you can start by explaining it to her calmly and gently that this is what she's doing and how negatively it's affecting you. Also you can start by no longer enabling her negative behavior. don't suppress your annoyance and resentment and let it build up until you explode angrily at her (that will just make her even more defensive and less likely to ever want to cooperate), that's not healthy either. But at the same time you clearly need a break from her negativity, so you need to take care of yourself and ensure you get some breaks. You have the right to have your own personal boundaries as well, in this case, to have relief from her negativity and her problems.
You can't make her take responsibility for herself, but you can choose to stop being complicit in fueling her negative patterns by setting boundaries with her and not letting her use you as a crutch when it's clearly taking a toll on you. for example you can just not respond to her texts during your working hours, for example. or when she starts complaining again you can simply stop responding (but do explain why you're no longer responding to her).
Maybe only when she can no longer get immediate short-term relief by taking it out on you at your expense, then will she wake up and realize she needs to do something on her own about her problems and actually start to grow as a person and the relationship can then have a chance to get better.
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A
reader, anonymous, writes (5 May 2011): Hi Kelthuzad.
It sounds like she is suffering with some kind of depression, if she is continually always negative about her work. Work does take up a lot of time, and it is important to have some relaxing time to counter balance work life. You have been very supportive to her and a good listener but you have come to the point that nothing you are saying is making any difference which must be hard. Women do tend to often like to vent about things rather than the issue to be 'fixed'. However in your wife's case, it is not the occasional vent that is happening and it sounds as if she has some underlying issues here. Before you met her what was her work history like? Has she always gone from job to job? Perhaps she is seeking to fill something in her life via work, but each time she starts somewhere else, she can think of an excuse not to be there. You have done all you can, maybe now is the time to look at professional help?
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